UnderKanter

Holy shit! Look at this dude.........

https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/240602499722121218/photo/1


Not only is he ripped, doing Pilates is very smart for a man his size, to stay healthy, flexible and injury free. 19 year old white Karl....
Dang man, I do believe this kid gonna be BEAST

Hey guys this is thejazzmanfan from tribtalk if any of you guys remember. I just want to start off by saying I'm excited for this season, how awesome is it going to be to tower over most teams with four of our starters likely to be 6'8 or taller. I'll be happy to watch a pg that can actually handle his own on defense and hit 3's consistently. I hope kanter and burks make strides in their development this year (it looks like burks got a lot better based off the summer league) and from what I've read it looks like Hayward and Favors held their own against the Olympic team. I know either millsap or Jefferson will be gone by the trade deadline, so that means favors will get the starting job then if not at the start of the season. IMO Jefferson needs to go. I love the guy and he is really talented but you can't win a championship if you don't have a guy that can protect the rim, unless you get given the championship by the refs like the heat did and that will absolutly never happen for the jazz. I think Jefferson would be better coming off the bench because his conditioning is horrid and he can't handle playing starter minutes while playing defense. As I said before I'm excited for the season, there will be a lot of changes made and I hope we get good deals out of the trades we make

Zoonie wrote:

Hey guys this is thejazzmanfan from tribtalk if any of you guys remember. I just want to start off by saying I'm excited for this season, how awesome is it going to be to tower over most teams with four of our starters likely to be 6'8 or taller. I'll be happy to watch a pg that can actually handle his own on defense and hit 3's consistently. I hope kanter and burks make strides in their development this year (it looks like burks got a lot better based off the summer league) and from what I've read it looks like Hayward and Favors held their own against the Olympic team. I know either millsap or Jefferson will be gone by the trade deadline, so that means favors will get the starting job then if not at the start of the season. IMO Jefferson needs to go. I love the guy and he is really talented but you can't win a championship if you don't have a guy that can protect the rim, unless you get given the championship by the refs like the heat did and that will absolutly never happen for the jazz. I think Jefferson would be better coming off the bench because his conditioning is horrid and he can't handle playing starter minutes while playing defense. As I said before I'm excited for the season, there will be a lot of changes made and I hope we get good deals out of the trades we make

Welcome aboard brother. It's gonna be an exciting season!

Mutangclan wrote:

Holy shit! Look at this dude.........

https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/240602499722121218/photo/1


Not only is he ripped, doing Pilates is very smart for a man his size, to stay healthy, flexible and injury free. 19 year old white Karl....
Dang man, I do believe this kid gonna be BEAST

He is 20. Pilates is very smart you think? I believe it would be smarter for him to play for national team and get game experience which he is lacking way more then muscles. Here is another former ripped Jazzman...did not turn into a beast unfortunately.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Holy shit! Look at this dude.........

https://twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/240602499722121218/photo/1


Not only is he ripped, doing Pilates is very smart for a man his size, to stay healthy, flexible and injury free. 19 year old white Karl....
Dang man, I do believe this kid gonna be BEAST

He is 20. Pilates is very smart you think? I believe it would be smarter for him to play for national team and get game experience which he is lacking way more then muscles.

Oh Calgary.........Pilates is great for any professional athlete. Especially the very large ones. So yes.

Secondly, yea, last time he played for Turkey he got some great experience didn't he?? Watching perimeter play after perimeter play, with teammates who ignored him down low where he did damage, and instead watching them launch off balance, fade away 3ptrs.....3pt, after 3ptr, after 3ptr. And then getting yanked out of the game when he was the only one helping the team.

So NO. I dont think playing for Turkey is a good idea. Instead, getting in great shape, and receiving coaching and big man camps is 10x more helpful.

Mutangclan wrote:

Secondly, yea, last time he played for Turkey he got some great experience didn't he?? Watching perimeter play after perimeter play, with teammates who ignored him down low where he did damage, and instead watching them launch off balance, fade away 3ptrs.....3pt, after 3ptr, after 3ptr. And then getting yanked out of the game when he was the only one helping the team.

So NO. I dont think playing for Turkey is a good idea. Instead, getting in great shape, and receiving coaching and big man camps is 10x more helpful.

It is different coach, different team now. He could have been central part of the offense. Even if guards are still chucking 3's he would get experience defending other big men, rebounding, setting screens, etc. Dude missed almost two years of basketball and should be jumping at any chance to play competitive game. Instead he is doing Pilates and lifting weights? Not smart IMHO.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Secondly, yea, last time he played for Turkey he got some great experience didn't he?? Watching perimeter play after perimeter play, with teammates who ignored him down low where he did damage, and instead watching them launch off balance, fade away 3ptrs.....3pt, after 3ptr, after 3ptr. And then getting yanked out of the game when he was the only one helping the team.

So NO. I dont think playing for Turkey is a good idea. Instead, getting in great shape, and receiving coaching and big man camps is 10x more helpful.

It is different coach, different team now. He could have been central part of the offense. Even if guards are still chucking 3's he would get experience defending other big men, rebounding, setting screens, etc. Dude missed almost two years of basketball and should be jumping at any chance to play competitive game. Instead he is doing Pilates and lifting weights? Not smart IMHO.

Well if that was the case, then yes, that would have been helpful. However, you have to be in games to defend players, and they weren't even playing him even though he was obviously their best player. Also thats alot of "even if" and "could have"s.....
Other thing is, I am certain that you are not the only one to think of this. I have no doubt that UnderKanter and his agent both weighed the options, and decided that staying here and working on his game was the best option. My guess is they didn't see him getting in games like he should.
Lastly Calg, you dont actually think that all he's done is Pilates and lifting weights, do you??? Besides attending that P3 place which basically is like a place to find and get the most out of your body, he also attended Tim Grgurich's camp, which is widely considered the best NBA camp there is for younger players, and has a great deal of focus on Bigs. And thats all I know, I'm sure there's more.
This doesn't seem like the right time, nor topic to do your ripping on Kanter.

Mutangclan wrote:

I have no doubt that UnderKanter and his agent both weighed the options, and decided that staying here and working on his game was the best option. My guess is they didn't see him getting in games like he should.

I am afraid somebody is making those decisions for him which may end up costly for his overal career. First, instead of playing profesional basketball in Europe at age of 18 he moves to USA and sits all year without playing, now he skips national team when it could be perfect chance to improve his game experience, what is going to happen next, his agent is going to tell him not to resign with Jazz or something like that for sure... No wonder his coach is mad at him "for losing his head"...he trusted him, put him on Euroleague team at 17 years of age and in response to that Enes left his country and club to sit in USA for a year and now refusing to play for national team... Just bad choices in my honest opinion.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I have no doubt that UnderKanter and his agent both weighed the options, and decided that staying here and working on his game was the best option. My guess is they didn't see him getting in games like he should.

I am afraid somebody is making those decisions for him which may end up costly for his overal career. First, instead of playing profesional basketball in Europe at age of 18 he moves to USA and sits all year without playing, now he skips national team when it could be perfect chance to improve his game experience, what is going to happen next, his agent is going to tell him not to resign with Jazz or something like that for sure... No wonder his coach is mad at him "for losing his head"...he trusted him, put him on Euroleague team at 17 years of age and in response to that Enes left his country and club to sit in USA for a year and now refusing to play for national team... Just bad choices in my honest opinion.

You're doing it again Calgary....he didn't "leave his country to sit for a year". He left his country to play college ball, and then unfortunately was not able to.

The other is a valid point, your worry. And as for Enes leaving his country for the tournament etc, they blatantly sat him on his butt last year as the rest of the Turkish players looked like clowns. I think it's a normal reaction then to not want to play on that team.

But mostly, the Jazz have not said a word other than that they are happy with his offseason and he's looking great. Not to mention they said they loved that he played on the Summer League. So since they're his boss now, and certainly want the best out of them, I think it's safe to say he is choosing wisely.

PS: http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/features/the-benefits-of-pilates

yes, Pilates is GREAT for a 19yr old 260lb 7footer to be doing.....

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

I have no doubt that UnderKanter and his agent both weighed the options, and decided that staying here and working on his game was the best option. My guess is they didn't see him getting in games like he should.

I am afraid somebody is making those decisions for him which may end up costly for his overal career. First, instead of playing profesional basketball in Europe at age of 18 he moves to USA and sits all year without playing, now he skips national team when it could be perfect chance to improve his game experience, what is going to happen next, his agent is going to tell him not to resign with Jazz or something like that for sure... No wonder his coach is mad at him "for losing his head"...he trusted him, put him on Euroleague team at 17 years of age and in response to that Enes left his country and club to sit in USA for a year and now refusing to play for national team... Just bad choices in my honest opinion.

Come on Cal it is pretty clear that you are going to do or find anything you can to somehow put down this Kid it is getting pretty dam old and make you look pretty little IMO. Get over it he is on the team now and there is nothing that you can do that is going to change that so get behind him for once and give him a chance you just might get shocked with the out come in the end.

The Kid has worked hard on his body from the way it looks and that is only going to help him with defending big's in the NBA without question, along with his body I am sure he has worked on his offensive game along with other stuff so let's see what the Kid can do this coming season before judging him.

dongibby wrote:

Come on Cal it is pretty clear that you are going to do or find anything you can to somehow put down this Kid it is getting pretty dam old and make you look pretty little IMO. Get over it he is on the team now and there is nothing that you can do that is going to change that so get behind him for once and give him a chance you just might get shocked with the out come in the end.

The Kid has worked hard on his body from the way it looks and that is only going to help him with defending big's in the NBA without question, along with his body I am sure he has worked on his offensive game along with other stuff so let's see what the Kid can do this coming season before judging him.

Ya, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Dissing him for doing palates and not playing for his crappy national team?

But of course he's just doing it because Mu brought it up and, heaven forbid he might think that a worthwhile thing to do, needed a reality check.

Mutangclan wrote:

You're doing it again Calgary....he didn't "leave his country to sit for a year". He left his country to play college ball, and then unfortunately was not able to.

...

Well, he had two choices - play pro ball in Europe or try to play college ball in USA - I doubt people who surround him and gave him advise did not know that after playing pro ball even for short time he would be not eligible for NCAA career...did they think they will be able to hide such fact? That was silly, obviously NCAA checks those facts. He chose to go to USA, was found ineligible to play and sat all year instead of coming back to Europe and playing.
I understand that for some of you it looks smart not to play for national team and work on his body... yeah if he would have a lot of playing experience it would make sense, but now? Kid already has great body - all he needed is to play a lot and he wasted such opportunity. Do you guys honestly think he is going to see more then 15-17 min a game this season behind Favors, Big AL and Millsap?

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

You're doing it again Calgary....he didn't "leave his country to sit for a year". He left his country to play college ball, and then unfortunately was not able to.

...

Well, he had two choices - play pro ball in Europe or try to play college ball in USA - I doubt people who surround him and gave him advise did not know that after playing pro ball even for short time he would be not eligible for NCAA career...did they think they will be able to hide such fact? That was silly, obviously NCAA checks those facts. He chose to go to USA, was found ineligible to play and sat all year instead of coming back to Europe and playing.
I understand that for some of you it looks smart not to play for national team and work on his body... yeah if he would have a lot of playing experience it would make sense, but now? Kid already has great body - all he needed is to play a lot and he wasted such opportunity. Do you guys honestly think he is going to see more then 15-17 min a game this season behind Favors, Big AL and Millsap?

No, thats not what happened at all. Enes took advantage of the ability to play at the highest level possible to him, which was a club team in Turkey. He still maintained his amateur status while doing that. What they said happened, was he received somewhat more payments then what he needed for actual expenses. So it was strictly a $$ thing, and only slightly more. It was not for playing on a pro team.

And if he stayed, play for which pro-team???? In which pro-league??? He chose to go to one of the top 3 basketball schools in the nation, with one of the top 3-5 coaches in the college game. And it was to fill the Center spot that Demarcus Cousins had just vacated. It was a very smart move, and very unfortunate that they later found him ineligible.

He played in the summer league, and is learning what he needs to learn. And yea, I think 17-20 minutes is about right. He's also still not even 20 years old, and by 2013 he's going to be somewhat featured after we lose, most likely, a big. He's here, going against other pro's, and will be battling Al and FAv in practice regularly, which will absolutely improve him. So this full year, which will be his first, is a year to improve. Which he will. And you know he will.

Bottom line, is that if the Jazz thought he would benefit more from playing for Turkey, verses staying in US and playing in the Summer League, they would have told him that. They didn't.

Mutangclan wrote:

And if he stayed, play for which pro-team???? In which pro-league??? He chose to go to one of the top 3 basketball schools in the nation, with one of the top 3-5 coaches in the college game. And it was to fill the Center spot that Demarcus Cousins had just vacated. It was a very smart move, and very unfortunate that they later found him ineligible.

Mutang, he played 4 games in Euroleague for Fenerbache prior to going to Kentuky. That is second strongest league in the world behind NBA. It is pro league and he got paid, there was no way he would have played there as amateur or for free. And he had a choice to stay here for another year but decided to rush to USA, against not sure why as NCAA is not even close to Euroleague level, plus he should have known he will be banned from playing there. Plus what baffles me most is why he did not came back to Europe to play after he was ruled ineligible and elected to stay without playing competitive ball..

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

And if he stayed, play for which pro-team???? In which pro-league??? He chose to go to one of the top 3 basketball schools in the nation, with one of the top 3-5 coaches in the college game. And it was to fill the Center spot that Demarcus Cousins had just vacated. It was a very smart move, and very unfortunate that they later found him ineligible.

Plus what baffles me most is why he did not came back to Europe to play after he was ruled ineligible and elected to stay without playing competitive ball..

Because he is a pussy who does Pilates and not nearly as good as JV?

Give it a rest CJ, lets let the damn season unfold a little bit, eh? Why not talk about how damn good JV is without having never set foot on an NBA floor or something. You can gloat later after JV makes the All-Star team his rookie year.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

And if he stayed, play for which pro-team???? In which pro-league??? He chose to go to one of the top 3 basketball schools in the nation, with one of the top 3-5 coaches in the college game. And it was to fill the Center spot that Demarcus Cousins had just vacated. It was a very smart move, and very unfortunate that they later found him ineligible.

Mutang, he played 4 games in Euroleague for Fenerbache prior to going to Kentuky. That is second strongest league in the world behind NBA. It is pro league and he got paid, there was no way he would have played there as amateur or for free. And he had a choice to stay here for another year but decided to rush to USA, against not sure why as NCAA is not even close to Euroleague level, plus he should have known he will be banned from playing there. Plus what baffles me most is why he did not came back to Europe to play after he was ruled ineligible and elected to stay without playing competitive ball..

Calgary, you need to read up on the rules----- the NCAA has a rule that amateurs can play with professionals, as long as the PAY does not exceed actual expenses. As far as he knew he had maintained his amateur status, as DID Kentucky since they appealed the decision. Not only that, but per FIBA rules, he can't have a contract or be a professional before 18.

So Calgary, please read this link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5793192

Also, MT is right. What are you even arguing??? That some Turkish coach is pissed a good player didn't want to waste his time again?? And instead better himself in other ways??? So what??? You started off dissing Pilates, and now it's pre-draft stuff....really??
Kanter made a very good decision this off season. The Jazz are happy, and they said so. Thats what matters.

Mutangclan wrote:

Also, MT is right. What are you even arguing??? That some Turkish coach is pissed a good player didn't want to waste his time again?? And instead better himself in other ways??? So what??? You started off dissing Pilates, and now it's pre-draft stuff....really??
Kanter made a very good decision this off season. The Jazz are happy, and they said so. Thats what matters.

That has yet to be seen. I am not arguing, just saying that in my opinion Kanter or people surrounding him made few questionable decisions and skipping on national tam is one of them.
And I am not dissing Pilates as form of training - I simple stated that again IN MY OPINION, Kanter needs in game experience way more then Pilates.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Also, MT is right. What are you even arguing??? That some Turkish coach is pissed a good player didn't want to waste his time again?? And instead better himself in other ways??? So what??? You started off dissing Pilates, and now it's pre-draft stuff....really??
Kanter made a very good decision this off season. The Jazz are happy, and they said so. Thats what matters.

That has yet to be seen. I am not arguing, just saying that in my opinion Kanter or people surrounding him made few questionable decisions and skipping on national tam is one of them.
And I am not dissing Pilates as form of training - I simple stated that again IN MY OPINION, Kanter needs in game experience way more then Pilates.

Yes it is yet to be seen, but that also applies to what you are saying. But if the Jazz are happy, then that is the biggest indicator of Kanter doing the right things, correct?
Calgary, which is it? You made a bunch of comments about why Kanter (and/or his people) has made questionable decisions, but I've shown that is not the case. And you're just going to ignore that now?

And as for that last comment, I hear what you're saying. But Kanter has an entire Summer to learn the Jazz offense, learn how to better be a big, get some of the best teachings from guys like Grgurich's camp, AND play in the Summer League and other camps. Why would he, as a 19 year old NBA-baby, then just go and play with a Turkish team that does not teach him nearly as well, do NOT focus on him as the focal point of the offense, would not guarantee minutes, AND, why go play for Turkey, when you can get NBA instruction here??? Kid needs to learn, and the best place to do that is right here where he has.

Mu is absolutely right on the national team thing. NBA players don't go and play for their national teams to get better. They do it for pride, for recognition, for the chance to compete on a different stage. You ask any NBA GM, agent, or player and they will tell you playing for the national team isn't about becoming a better player, and if being thier best during the NBA season was their top priority they wouldn't do it. Heck, if it was up to the GM's and agents most of their guys wouldn't be allowed to do it at all, ESPECIALY international guys who have mediocre national teams, because the only thing they will likely bring back with them from that experience is an injury.

So what makes good advice and what makes bad? Pretty hard to tell if you ask me.

TheMagnus wrote:

Mu is absolutely right on the national team thing. NBA players don't go and play for their national teams to get better. They do it for pride, for recognition, for the chance to compete on a different stage. You ask any NBA GM, agent, or player and they will tell you playing for the national team isn't about becoming a better player, and if being thier best during the NBA season was their top priority they wouldn't do it. Heck, if it was up to the GM's and agents most of their guys wouldn't be allowed to do it at all, ESPECIALY international guys who have mediocre national teams, because the only thing they will likely bring back with them from that experience is an injury.
.

Sure this all sounds right when it comes to players like Nowitzki, Ginobili or Kirilenko. I totally supported Memo when he declined to play for Turkey as he needed to rest his back and get in better shape during offseason. You guys forgetting one thing - Kanter played smallest number of minutes of organized basketball then probably any other NBA player, he needs in game experience to get better. Big men camps, pilates, weight lifting, individual workouts - all is great but not equals real game experience. Even Summer league is not the same as there nobody cares if you win or lose. National team games are completely different, every win and even point differential counts. What could be better for his growth as a player then to stay on the floor in close game and maybe shooting FT with few seconds left? Or maybe defending opponent big men with 1 pt lead and few seconds left? You won't get that in camps or anywhere else besides real games. And I bet he won't get that in NBA this season either as 99% of the time down the stretch he will be riding the bench.
And serious injuries can happen in offseason despite not playing for national teams, just ask Boozer:)

Mutangclan wrote:

He's also still not even 20 years old

He turned 20 in May.

Mutangclan wrote:

But if the Jazz are happy, then that is the biggest indicator of Kanter doing the right things, correct?
Calgary, which is it? You made a bunch of comments about why Kanter (and/or his people) has made questionable decisions, but I've shown that is not the case. And you're just going to ignore that now?

I did not see any statement from Jazz that they are happy that Enes bailed on National team. We can speculate but there was nothing said as far as I know.
I am not ignoring what you said, but you did not show that it is not the case. Trying to get to NCAA when you have offer from Euroleague team is not smart decision as Euroleague is better level competition. Not coming back to Europe after he was found ineligible and instead sitting a year - not a smart decision. Not going to play for national team at age of 20 years when you need every single minute of real basketball games - not a smart decision. This is in my opinion. Your opinion can be different and that is fine, does not mean you or me are 100% right;).
Our opinions can differ and that is a beauty of forums like that... otherwise whats there to talk about in September?

Calgary Jazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Mu is absolutely right on the national team thing. NBA players don't go and play for their national teams to get better. They do it for pride, for recognition, for the chance to compete on a different stage. You ask any NBA GM, agent, or player and they will tell you playing for the national team isn't about becoming a better player, and if being thier best during the NBA season was their top priority they wouldn't do it. Heck, if it was up to the GM's and agents most of their guys wouldn't be allowed to do it at all, ESPECIALY international guys who have mediocre national teams, because the only thing they will likely bring back with them from that experience is an injury.
.

Sure this all sounds right when it comes to players like Nowitzki, Ginobili or Kirilenko. I totally supported Memo when he declined to play for Turkey as he needed to rest his back and get in better shape during offseason. You guys forgetting one thing - Kanter played smallest number of minutes of organized basketball then probably any other NBA player, he needs in game experience to get better. Big men camps, pilates, weight lifting, individual workouts - all is great but not equals real game experience. Even Summer league is not the same as there nobody cares if you win or lose. National team games are completely different, every win and even point differential counts. What could be better for his growth as a player then to stay on the floor in close game and maybe shooting FT with few seconds left? Or maybe defending opponent big men with 1 pt lead and few seconds left? You won't get that in camps or anywhere else besides real games. And I bet he won't get that in NBA this season either as 99% of the time down the stretch he will be riding the bench.
And serious injuries can happen in offseason despite not playing for national teams, just ask Boozer:)

Just curious Calg, how many games did Turkey actually play this summer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_EuroBasket_2013_qualification

Total of 8 qualifying games and I think they played some friendly games before. Turkey is not doing that well without Turkoglu, Ilyasova, Asik and Kanter, they already lost two games ( to Italy and Czech Republic ) and may not qualify to final tournament in Slovenia next year. Looks like Erden is carying the most scoring and rebounding load for them.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

But if the Jazz are happy, then that is the biggest indicator of Kanter doing the right things, correct?
Calgary, which is it? You made a bunch of comments about why Kanter (and/or his people) has made questionable decisions, but I've shown that is not the case. And you're just going to ignore that now?

I did not see any statement from Jazz that they are happy that Enes bailed on National team. We can speculate but there was nothing said as far as I know.

Who said he bailed?? He CHOSE to stay with his team, his employer, and teammates, and to learn the Jazz offense, what is expected of him, and how they want him to play.

AND this:
Coach Corbin is a big advocate of the summer league and is glad to see his team playing there again after last year's lockout-induced absence.

"I think it's hugely important to these young guys to get on the floor," he said, "and for us to see how guys like Alec Burks and Enes Kanter have developed from last year, and for a guy like (2012 draft pick) Kevin Murphy to have a chance to see the speed of the game.

"In order to get guys to play at this level, these young guys need to come out and compete in games like this, where it's more structured play and they get more of a chance to play, which can help them develop much faster than if they were just working out on their own."

Corbin said that young players realize the importance of playing in a league like this during the offseason, and he hasn't encountered any resistance from anyone who might have other ideas on how to spend their summer vacation.

"Most guys, if they love the game, they're more than willing to come play in a summer league like this," he said. "We haven't had anybody fight us on it."

After all, during their mini-camp, Corbin and his coaching staff have been busy teaching the 16-member Jazz summer league team how they want them to do things offensively and defensively.Corbin said the summer league always proves to be a great learning experience — especially for those NBA newcomers who haven't played at this level before.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765588659/Utah-Jazz-excited-to-play-in-summer-league.html?pg=all

Lastly he WAS guaranteed minutes in Summer League and WAS guaranteed to be a focal point. NOT AT ALL the case on playing with Turkey and their joke organization. And above FREAKING ALL!!!!! He had to miss out on all of this last year during the lockout, which is HUGELY important for young rookies. For him to "BAIL" on that opportunity after he had to miss it last year before his first season, would have been absurd and a slap to the face for the Jazz organization.