Training Camp News and Discussion

Richardale wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Getting spanked tonight though.

Anybody watching? What gives?

Looks like the starters got absolutely torched defensively.

Good team with lots of young guns! But hell there's no way they'll be trying to get a playoff spot?

Well I guess if they can shoot 60% every night, like they did last night, then they will probably make the playoffs, but barring that is seems highly unlikely.

that Lillard is a hell of a player though isn't he? Kind of upset I didn't get him in the draft last night.

The Jazz stats for the pre-season can be found here...

http://www.dougstats.com/12-13/UtahJazz.html

First thing that jumps out to me is that Burks and Kanter have made very strong cases that they deserve more playing time.

Letting Portland score 120 points without Aldridge is "not optimal" --- to steal Obama's questionably used phrase for BenGhazi. We better right that ship in the next game against Portland.

re: Doug's stats

Looking at Doug's stats, I always check the tendex per 48, which is similar to NBA.com's efficiency per 48. Kanter is absolutely killing it at 41! He is leading the entire NBA! Even if he is accomplishing much of those results against scrubs on the bubble, which I don't know to be the case, you still have to be impressed. Marvin near 28 is nice too. Young Burks is off to an encouraging 22.27; he finished his rookie season at 17.52. I think Burks has also had to deal with the added pressure of playing some PG this pre-season, though I don't know his actual minutes breakdown between PG and SG. On the downside, Foye's 12 really sucks!!!

Lillard indeed looks like the real deal. Last night I thought a glaring need for the Jazz was PG penetration. Is Mo a better fit than Harris? The juries still out.

You never know what you are going to get from BleacherReport, but I thought this was a fairly insightful summation of where things stand right now in the Jazz Pre-Season...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1379927-utah-jazzs-top-training-camp-storylines

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Letting Portland score 120 points without Aldridge is "not optimal" --- to steal Obama's questionably used phrase for BenGhazi. We better right that ship in the next game against Portland.

re: Doug's stats

Looking at Doug's stats, I always check the tendex per 48, which is similar to NBA.com's efficiency per 48. Kanter is absolutely killing it at 41! He is leading the entire NBA! Even if he is accomplishing much of those results against scrubs on the bubble, which I don't know to be the case, you still have to be impressed. Marvin near 28 is nice too. Young Burks is off to an encouraging 22.27; he finished his rookie season at 17.52. I think Burks has also had to deal with the added pressure of playing some PG this pre-season, though I don't know his actual minutes breakdown between PG and SG. On the downside, Foye's 12 really sucks!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sawN7uJ8s8s

Taking another from the man!

TheMagnus wrote:

You never know what you are going to get from BleacherReport, but I thought this was a fairly insightful summation of where things stand right now in the Jazz Pre-Season...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1379927-utah-jazzs-top-training-camp-storylines

I agree, that is a decent summary of things at this point.

The biggest issue I have is this statement, in regards to the numerous wings that need to split PT:
"The newest members of the Jazz, Williams and Foye, will be riding the pine for the bulk of the game."

Really? Marvin Williams riding pine? I think not.

zero24gravity wrote:

I agree, that is a decent summary of things at this point.

The biggest issue I have is this statement, in regards to the numerous wings that need to split PT:
"The newest members of the Jazz, Williams and Foye, will be riding the pine for the bulk of the game."

Really? Marvin Williams riding pine? I think not.

Ya, I wondered about that to, didn't make much sense to me either.

I thought the comments on the PG situation were interesting. I wasn't aware that the Burks/Foye combination was working so well, but it does make some sense.

Tinsley is probably the best pure PG on the roster, but I've noticed that the D seems to drop off significantly when he's out there, and maybe a pure PG doesn't really work when the offense has been designed to distribute the ball to the wings and center around the post.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

I agree, that is a decent summary of things at this point.

The biggest issue I have is this statement, in regards to the numerous wings that need to split PT:
"The newest members of the Jazz, Williams and Foye, will be riding the pine for the bulk of the game."

Really? Marvin Williams riding pine? I think not.

Ya, I wondered about that to, didn't make much sense to me either.

I thought the comments on the PG situation were interesting. I wasn't aware that the Burks/Foye combination was working so well, but it does make some sense.

Tinsley is probably the best pure PG on the roster, but I've noticed that the D seems to drop off significantly when he's out there, and maybe a pure PG doesn't really work when the offense has been designed to distribute the ball to the wings and center around the post.

Solid points about the points. But as we've discussed before, in order for Favors to be most effective, he's got to get the ball in the right spots, the right time & moving to the basket .... which is going to make Tinsley the best option to play with him in the second unit (since it appears obvious that Favors isn't starting). I don't see Burks or Foye (or even Mo) really being the kind of player who is going to make other players better by distributing.

Outside of knocking down some 3's, I haven't been overly impressed with Foye during the preseason. He's been alright, but I'd much rather see Burks gobbling up those minutes.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

I agree, that is a decent summary of things at this point.

The biggest issue I have is this statement, in regards to the numerous wings that need to split PT:
"The newest members of the Jazz, Williams and Foye, will be riding the pine for the bulk of the game."

Really? Marvin Williams riding pine? I think not.

Ya, I wondered about that to, didn't make much sense to me either.

I thought the comments on the PG situation were interesting. I wasn't aware that the Burks/Foye combination was working so well, but it does make some sense.

Tinsley is probably the best pure PG on the roster, but I've noticed that the D seems to drop off significantly when he's out there, and maybe a pure PG doesn't really work when the offense has been designed to distribute the ball to the wings and center around the post.

Solid points about the points. But as we've discussed before, in order for Favors to be most effective, he's got to get the ball in the right spots, the right time & moving to the basket .... which is going to make Tinsley the best option to play with him in the second unit (since it appears obvious that Favors isn't starting). I don't see Burks or Foye (or even Mo) really being the kind of player who is going to make other players better by distributing.

Outside of knocking down some 3's, I haven't been overly impressed with Foye during the preseason. He's been alright, but I'd much rather see Burks gobbling up those minutes.

I dont think any of it is set in stone yet but one could argue Kanter and Burts have earn more playing time than anyone on the team so far with there play. I've loved what i've seen out of those two and i think they should've been given a starting role for at least one preseason game! This mite be a sign that Ty may be more set in his lineup than i had hoped?

Not sure i've like the Offense the jazz are running, Sloan may have never won the big one but the pick and roll was run to perfection with John and Karl? Why dont we have hope of two youngs, working on this thyp of perfection for the future with the jazz?
It looks like the jazz are running around lost most the time. am i the only one seeing this? Its nice to push the ball but when its not there we post up a guy and hope he can do something good. Where has all the screens and pick and rolls gone?

Richardale wrote:

I dont think any of it is set in stone yet but one could argue Kanter and Burts have earn more playing time than anyone on the team so far with there play. I've loved what i've seen out of those two and i think they should've been given a starting role for at least one preseason game! This mite be a sign that Ty may be more set in his lineup than i had hoped?

Not sure i've like the Offense the jazz are running, Sloan may have never won the big one but the pick and roll was run to perfection with John and Karl? Why dont we have hope of two youngs, working on this thyp of perfection for the future with the jazz?
It looks like the jazz are running around lost most the time. am i the only one seeing this? Its nice to push the ball but when its not there we post up a guy and hope he can do something good. Where has all the screens and pick and rolls gone?

I see the same thing when it comes to the offense. It's been a little too Hawks/Warriors - style for me. I like seeing the three ball used more effectively, but it does look pretty disorganized out there. I do like Mo, but he's also not as much of a pure PG as I'd like. He's still a shooter, not a facilitator, that could have a lot to do with getting into offensive sets.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

I agree, that is a decent summary of things at this point.

The biggest issue I have is this statement, in regards to the numerous wings that need to split PT:
"The newest members of the Jazz, Williams and Foye, will be riding the pine for the bulk of the game."

Really? Marvin Williams riding pine? I think not.

Ya, I wondered about that to, didn't make much sense to me either.

I thought the comments on the PG situation were interesting. I wasn't aware that the Burks/Foye combination was working so well, but it does make some sense.

Tinsley is probably the best pure PG on the roster, but I've noticed that the D seems to drop off significantly when he's out there, and maybe a pure PG doesn't really work when the offense has been designed to distribute the ball to the wings and center around the post.

Solid points about the points. But as we've discussed before, in order for Favors to be most effective, he's got to get the ball in the right spots, the right time & moving to the basket .... which is going to make Tinsley the best option to play with him in the second unit (since it appears obvious that Favors isn't starting). I don't see Burks or Foye (or even Mo) really being the kind of player who is going to make other players better by distributing.

Outside of knocking down some 3's, I haven't been overly impressed with Foye during the preseason. He's been alright, but I'd much rather see Burks gobbling up those minutes.

Well that's a decent theory, but in practice it doesn't really seem to be happening, I mean it's not like Favors has been overly impressive offensively with any group this preseason, and Tinsley doesn't appear to get any more out of him than the other PG's.

While I would agree that Foye hasn't been very impressive in general, and especially not as a PG, I think his D has been all around solid. And even as bad as he has been shooting the ball, if he didn't improve at all he'd still better than Watson and Tinsley, who are almost comically bad.

I agree that I'd like to see Burks getting most of those minutes, both at PG and SG, but he can't do both at the same time, and right now the most effective second option looks like Foye.

zero24gravity wrote:

Richardale wrote:

I dont think any of it is set in stone yet but one could argue Kanter and Burts have earn more playing time than anyone on the team so far with there play. I've loved what i've seen out of those two and i think they should've been given a starting role for at least one preseason game! This mite be a sign that Ty may be more set in his lineup than i had hoped?

Not sure i've like the Offense the jazz are running, Sloan may have never won the big one but the pick and roll was run to perfection with John and Karl? Why dont we have hope of two youngs, working on this thyp of perfection for the future with the jazz?
It looks like the jazz are running around lost most the time. am i the only one seeing this? Its nice to push the ball but when its not there we post up a guy and hope he can do something good. Where has all the screens and pick and rolls gone?

I see the same thing when it comes to the offense. It's been a little too Hawks/Warriors - style for me. I like seeing the three ball used more effectively, but it does look pretty disorganized out there. I do like Mo, but he's also not as much of a pure PG as I'd like. He's still a shooter, not a facilitator, that could have a lot to do with getting into offensive sets.

I think it's all part of the learning process. Corbin wants them to pick up the pace, and they have done that, but he also wants them to execute once they get into the half court, and they are struggling to do that. It's a tough thing to play faster and at the same time play under control. The Spurs have been masterfull at doing it for the last couple of seasons, I think that is where they are going, and they will get the hang of it, but it will take some time.

Per Richard, the surprise "problem" is that Kanter and Burks need meaningful minutes. We all had a hunch that Burks was going to bring it after his summer ball performance but I think we all were kind of getting that gut clench thing going on with Kanter. The guy has been beastly. He may not be ready to start every night but you know he is going to get some starts when guys start getting hurt. Burks as well. I could see Burks having a near-6th man/MIP type season pretty easily and deserve starter minutes next year. Haven't watched any games so no comment on the offense other than Mags' observation that this is the "San Antonio" system/offense that will get better as time goes on.

MTJazz wrote:

Per Richard, the surprise "problem" is that Kanter and Burks need meaningful minutes. We all had a hunch that Burks was going to bring it after his summer ball performance but I think we all were kind of getting that gut clench thing going on with Kanter. The guy has been beastly. He may not be ready to start every night but you know he is going to get some starts when guys start getting hurt. Burks as well. I could see Burks having a near-6th man/MIP type season pretty easily and deserve starter minutes next year. Haven't watched any games so no comment on the offense other than Mags' observation that this is the "San Antonio" system/offense that will get better as time goes on.

When Sloan was coach tho O was a thing of art. Ty looks like a thing of finger painting! Hope it comes around soon.

Richardale wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Per Richard, the surprise "problem" is that Kanter and Burks need meaningful minutes. We all had a hunch that Burks was going to bring it after his summer ball performance but I think we all were kind of getting that gut clench thing going on with Kanter. The guy has been beastly. He may not be ready to start every night but you know he is going to get some starts when guys start getting hurt. Burks as well. I could see Burks having a near-6th man/MIP type season pretty easily and deserve starter minutes next year. Haven't watched any games so no comment on the offense other than Mags' observation that this is the "San Antonio" system/offense that will get better as time goes on.

When Sloan was coach tho O was a thing of art. Ty looks like a thing of finger painting! Hope it comes around soon.

Its not on Ty. Sloan was one of a kind and he had Stock-to-Malone, what else you gonna do besides perfect the P&R? He made the team competitive and relevant for a long time riding those horses and that strength. Arguably, the Jazz have a more talented roster now then they ever did under Sloan's tenure. The problem is there aren't two guys on that roster who are transcendent, top 50 all-time NBA ballers, peaking together. This ain't your Dad's Jazz nor even our old guy memory team, a whole new NBA. I personally think copying San Antonio in every way possible is smart right now - lord knows they copied Jazz success in much the same way. The Jazz and SA are twins separated at birth!

- 21/12 in 25 minutes; that's 30+/17+ per 36. Turkish obscenity
- Nice 8 for 13 shoting for Favors; hope his time's coming
- Nice 4 assists for Big Al; superb for a big guy

outerspacefan wrote:

- 21/12 in 25 minutes; that's 30+/17+ per 36. Turkish obscenity
- Nice 8 for 13 shoting for Favors; hope his time's coming
- Nice 4 assists for Big Al; superb for a big guy

Allstar!

Richardale wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

- 21/12 in 25 minutes; that's 30+/17+ per 36. Turkish obscenity
- Nice 8 for 13 shoting for Favors; hope his time's coming
- Nice 4 assists for Big Al; superb for a big guy

Allstar!

Wasn't able to listen to the game, but just checked the box and saw that Kanter and Favors both had 21. Things are gonna be alright!

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

- 21/12 in 25 minutes; that's 30+/17+ per 36. Turkish obscenity
- Nice 8 for 13 shoting for Favors; hope his time's coming
- Nice 4 assists for Big Al; superb for a big guy

Allstar!

Wasn't able to listen to the game, but just checked the box and saw that Kanter and Favors both had 21. Things are gonna be alright!

They keep the young guys in to play with blazers starter to finish the game. somebody has to go and i want to keep both paul and Al because both are first class guys. But we all know these young guys will need more time. Do we just set back and let em walk and not get nothing or trade and pick up picks? We're gonna have two pick more than likely so if we go picks should be for later down the road. we dont need four rooks next year.

Richardale wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

- 21/12 in 25 minutes; that's 30+/17+ per 36. Turkish obscenity
- Nice 8 for 13 shoting for Favors; hope his time's coming
- Nice 4 assists for Big Al; superb for a big guy

Allstar!

Wasn't able to listen to the game, but just checked the box and saw that Kanter and Favors both had 21. Things are gonna be alright!

They keep the young guys in to play with blazers starter to finish the game. somebody has to go and i want to keep both paul and Al because both are first class guys. But we all know these young guys will need more time. Do we just set back and let em walk and not get nothing or trade and pick up picks? We're gonna have two pick more than likely so if we go picks should be for later down the road. we dont need four rooks next year.

And this from the re-cap:

"The Jazz used an 8-0 run to open an 85-78 lead in the fourth quarter. Favors and Kanter finished off the surge with consecutive jumpers." Damnnnnn, the big guys stroking jumpers!?!

Richardale wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Richardale wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

- 21/12 in 25 minutes; that's 30+/17+ per 36. Turkish obscenity
- Nice 8 for 13 shoting for Favors; hope his time's coming
- Nice 4 assists for Big Al; superb for a big guy

Allstar!

Wasn't able to listen to the game, but just checked the box and saw that Kanter and Favors both had 21. Things are gonna be alright!

They keep the young guys in to play with blazers starter to finish the game. somebody has to go and i want to keep both paul and Al because both are first class guys. But we all know these young guys will need more time. Do we just set back and let em walk and not get nothing or trade and pick up picks? We're gonna have two pick more than likely so if we go picks should be for later down the road. we dont need four rooks next year.

Worst case scenario is the jazz give up their 2014 2nd round draft pick for a trade exception.

I will put my thoughts about a possible trade I have thought about up on here in another thread.

outerspacefan wrote:

- 21/12 in 25 minutes; that's 30+/17+ per 36. Turkish obscenity
- Nice 8 for 13 shoting for Favors; hope his time's coming
- Nice 4 assists for Big Al; superb for a big guy

Don't forget Big Al still only had 1 turnover, the fact that he is passing more and is still the best player in the league for not turning the ball over is just astonishing.

Also worth noting is the 5 steals for Millsap and 4 for Carroll, those are two guys that you just love to see play because they always get after it.

I think both of these games have exposed the Blazers biggest problems, and the reasons why they are heading for the lottery again, they are paper thin in the frontcourt and their bench is crap. After Aldrige they have nothing down low, JJ Hickson will be starting at C and the rookie Leonard has potential but is still really raw, leaving the rest of the minutes to Jared Jeffries and Joel Freeland. In two games the Jazz absolutely destroyed the Blazers inside. Of the Jazz big 4 only Paul Millsap failed to reach double figures AND shoot over 50% in both games and none of them played more than 25 minutes. I think they will probably be a fun team to watch, but that is about it.

Richardale wrote:

They keep the young guys in to play with blazers starter to finish the game. somebody has to go and i want to keep both paul and Al because both are first class guys. But we all know these young guys will need more time. Do we just set back and let em walk and not get nothing or trade and pick up picks? We're gonna have two pick more than likely so if we go picks should be for later down the road. we dont need four rooks next year.

All of the talk comming out of camp right now is that everybody is going to be playing. The implication is that the starters are going to play less than they have in recent years, and that the rotations will be more open depending on matchups and who's playing well. On the starters playing less I can easily see that, last night Corbin talked about playing the starters more before the game, but then when the second unit was playing well he left them out to finnish the game. On the being more creative with lineups, I guess I'll believe it when I see it, because I haven't seen any indication in this preseason that Corbin will coach that way, and if you are going to see it any time, you would expect to see it in the preseason.

Here's some articles that touch on the subject...

http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/2012/10/24/insider-the-real-issue-confronting-the-jazz-finally-addressed-today/

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Jazz-have-bigger-goals-after-bolstering-weaknesses-98653459

TheMagnus wrote:

Richardale wrote:

They keep the young guys in to play with blazers starter to finish the game. somebody has to go and i want to keep both paul and Al because both are first class guys. But we all know these young guys will need more time. Do we just set back and let em walk and not get nothing or trade and pick up picks? We're gonna have two pick more than likely so if we go picks should be for later down the road. we dont need four rooks next year.

All of the talk comming out of camp right now is that everybody is going to be playing. The implication is that the starters are going to play less than they have in recent years, and that the rotations will be more open depending on matchups and who's playing well. On the starters playing less I can easily see that, last night Corbin talked about playing the starters more before the game, but then when the second unit was playing well he left them out to finnish the game. On the being more creative with lineups, I guess I'll believe it when I see it, because I haven't seen any indication in this preseason that Corbin will coach that way, and if you are going to see it any time, you would expect to see it in the preseason.

Here's some articles that touch on the subject...

http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/2012/10/24/insider-the-real-issue-confronting-the-jazz-finally-addressed-today/

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Jazz-have-bigger-goals-after-bolstering-weaknesses-98653459

I don't see it Corbin letting the young guys get minutes over Al or Sap. He coaches like he is coaching for his job. The fact is as much as I love Al and Milsap. Favors, Kanter, Hayward and Burks are the future of this team. If they don't get the experience now, when Al and Sap are gone we are gonna take a huge step backwards.