alec burks PT

I would do an article on this for the website, but lets be honest, nobody on a heat blog would read it.

Anyways, I will give you my 2 cents on the whole controversy of the game one basically DNP-CD. I support not playing him. Hey, if it is true Foye has been better in training camp, then he should get the minutes at SG off the bench. Make Burks work for it.

THis comes down to mental toughness. Will Burks work his butt off to get better, or does he sulk, and be sad? One reason why I think bad teams stay bad is because players dont have to work hard to get PT. Teams give lottery picks PT just because they are lottery picks sometimes. No make him work for it.

His time will come. THere will be an injury. When that injury happens, that will be his time to prove he deserves PT. Keep your head down, and keep competing. Shoot, on the back-to-back, coming up, id think of giving Tinsley the night off on the 2nd night of the back-to-back because of his age, and this helps get Burks in the game.

Thinking of tinsley, he looked shaky in the first game. If he keeps looking shaky, it might be time to play the foye/burks tandem. Give Tinsley time though for now.

"You play to win the game." Play whoever gives you the best chance to win. I am not all that worried right now about the lack of PT for Burks. It will come. Until then, it is just up to burks to stay ready. Right now, I do not see it as much of a big deal.

therawns wrote:

I would do an article on this for the website, but lets be honest, nobody on a heat blog would read it.

Anyways, I will give you my 2 cents on the whole controversy of the game one basically DNP-CD. I support not playing him. Hey, if it is true Foye has been better in training camp, then he should get the minutes at SG off the bench. Make Burks work for it.

THis comes down to mental toughness. Will Burks work his butt off to get better, or does he sulk, and be sad? One reason why I think bad teams stay bad is because players dont have to work hard to get PT. Teams give lottery picks PT just because they are lottery picks sometimes. No make him work for it.

His time will come. THere will be an injury. When that injury happens, that will be his time to prove he deserves PT. Keep your head down, and keep competing. Shoot, on the back-to-back, coming up, id think of giving Tinsley the night off on the 2nd night of the back-to-back because of his age, and this helps get Burks in the game.

Thinking of tinsley, he looked shaky in the first game. If he keeps looking shaky, it might be time to play the foye/burks tandem. Give Tinsley time though for now.

"You play to win the game." Play whoever gives you the best chance to win. I am not all that worried right now about the lack of PT for Burks. It will come. Until then, it is just up to burks to stay ready. Right now, I do not see it as much of a big deal.

I was pissed about it at first, but then I came to the same conclusion you did. You have to earn your minutes every year. I like that strategy a lot. However then I thought, does Corbin always apply that? The answer is NO. Raja had absolutely no business stepping foot on the court for the Jazz last season and played a lot of minutes early on. Also going back to last season. Remember that hot streak we went on after Earl Watson got hurt and JT was the Backup? What happens, Watson gets to around 80% health and Corbin goes with him and JT gets a lot of DNPs and we go on a horrible streak. So yeah it's great to say best player plays, but He doesn't really apply it very evenly. I think a lot of the time Corbin looks at what a player could do or has done in the past and stubornly plays the player thinking that its a given that they will play that way again, regardless of whether or not it actually happens.

You're right Burks time will come. He just has to make so Coach has to put him in the game, because of his hard work and dedication. Kinda like what Kanter has done!

therawns wrote:

I would do an article on this for the website, but lets be honest, nobody on a heat blog would read it.

Anyways, I will give you my 2 cents on the whole controversy of the game one basically DNP-CD. I support not playing him. Hey, if it is true Foye has been better in training camp, then he should get the minutes at SG off the bench. Make Burks work for it.

THis comes down to mental toughness. Will Burks work his butt off to get better, or does he sulk, and be sad? One reason why I think bad teams stay bad is because players dont have to work hard to get PT. Teams give lottery picks PT just because they are lottery picks sometimes. No make him work for it.

His time will come. THere will be an injury. When that injury happens, that will be his time to prove he deserves PT. Keep your head down, and keep competing. Shoot, on the back-to-back, coming up, id think of giving Tinsley the night off on the 2nd night of the back-to-back because of his age, and this helps get Burks in the game.

Thinking of tinsley, he looked shaky in the first game. If he keeps looking shaky, it might be time to play the foye/burks tandem. Give Tinsley time though for now.

"You play to win the game." Play whoever gives you the best chance to win. I am not all that worried right now about the lack of PT for Burks. It will come. Until then, it is just up to burks to stay ready. Right now, I do not see it as much of a big deal.

I'm sorry, did you describe C J Miles just now or Alec Burks?

Players don't get better on the bench.

Nobody attacking the basket for the Jazz vs NO's.... little movement on offense..... nobody getting to the line.... I have a great idea.... bench Burks! Ugh

zero24gravity wrote:

Nobody attacking the basket for the Jazz vs NO's.... little movement on offense..... nobody getting to the line.... I have a great idea.... bench Burks! Ugh

Was thinking the same stupid thing!

Really liked Corbin shortening the rotation in the second half, I was starting to think he was going all paint-by-numbers on the rotations, it was nice to see him make some adjustments.

Also saw the first sighting of the "big 3" lineup this season, which was once again effective, outscoring the Spurs 16-14 in a half that saw the other Jazz lineups outscored by 20.

Of the 10 players with more than 30 minutes this season, their are only 3 with an overall +/- that is not positive, Jefferson, Tinsley, and Hayward. Both overall and on a per minute basis Hayward is the worst, while Foye is the best. I think Jefferson is being badly misused by the Jazz offensively, he needs to get the ball on the block more in the half court, and he's still a defensive liability.

The case of Foye, Hayward, and Tinsley is much more interesting. Almost all of Tinsley's minutes have come with Foye, yet Foye is one of the best, and Tinsley is one of the worst. Foye and Mo Williams are the Jazz second best pair behind Foye and Millsap, and the Jazz most effective 5 man group is the starting 5 only with Foye replacing Hayward at SG.

All that is the case in spite of the fact that Hayward has been playing pretty decent basketball. He's got the third highest PER and WS on the team, PER 36 Minutes he is averaging 16/4/3 and nearly 2 steals.

So what is going on here? I think what we are seeing is that Mo and Foye have chemistry and they work well together, and I think Hayward is struggling to find his place and assert himself with the veterans.

Why am I talking about this on the Burks thread? Because I think the solution to all of this is simple, and it involves Burks.

I think the Jazz need to start Foye, and move Hayward to the bench. Hayward comes off the bench at SF, Burks plays SG and/or PG. Tinsley has been and will continue to be ineffective, nothing has really changed form last season, his minutes should got to either Foye or Burks. Burks still won't play much, maybe 10 minutes a game, but it will be better than nothing. Hayward will be able to assert himself more with the second unit, and should get starter minutes (as in more minutes than Foye) even though he is coming off the bench.

Just my two cents on that, I'd like to see Corbin try some different lineups and rotations right now, it's pretty clear that there are some guys that just work better together, and I hope he tries to maximize that opportunity.

Det. Wheeler struggling to assert himself? Dude's game continues to be suspicious... last season Howard kick him out to the staring five, this year Foye's in the same path...

outerspacefan wrote:

Hayward struggling to assert himself? Det. Wheeler's got talent, but his game attitude continues to be suspiciously sissy ?.

I don't think that is it at all. Kid has always been a team player first, I think he really tries to do what he feels like the team needs. When he's playing with vets who just do their thing because they know who they are he tries too hard to just blend in and be a complimentary player instead of just going out there and being himself and doing what he can do.

Besides, like I said before, he's playing well, really well in fact, but for whatever reason it seems he's not positively impacting the game while he's out there. My argument is that chemistry with the starting 5 has to be part of the issue, and he'd probably do better playing with the second unit.

TheMagnus wrote:

Really liked Corbin shortening the rotation in the second half, I was starting to think he was going all paint-by-numbers on the rotations, it was nice to see him make some adjustments.

Also saw the first sighting of the "big 3" lineup this season, which was once again effective, outscoring the Spurs 16-14 in a half that saw the other Jazz lineups outscored by 20.

Of the 10 players with more than 30 minutes this season, their are only 3 with an overall +/- that is not positive, Jefferson, Tinsley, and Hayward. Both overall and on a per minute basis Hayward is the worst, while Foye is the best. I think Jefferson is being badly misused by the Jazz offensively, he needs to get the ball on the block more in the half court, and he's still a defensive liability.

The case of Foye, Hayward, and Tinsley is much more interesting. Almost all of Tinsley's minutes have come with Foye, yet Foye is one of the best, and Tinsley is one of the worst. Foye and Mo Williams are the Jazz second best pair behind Foye and Millsap, and the Jazz most effective 5 man group is the starting 5 only with Foye replacing Hayward at SG.

All that is the case in spite of the fact that Hayward has been playing pretty decent basketball. He's got the third highest PER and WS on the team, PER 36 Minutes he is averaging 16/4/3 and nearly 2 steals.

So what is going on here? I think what we are seeing is that Mo and Foye have chemistry and they work well together, and I think Hayward is struggling to find his place and assert himself with the veterans.

Why am I talking about this on the Burks thread? Because I think the solution to all of this is simple, and it involves Burks.

I think the Jazz need to start Foye, and move Hayward to the bench. Hayward comes off the bench at SF, Burks plays SG and/or PG. Tinsley has been and will continue to be ineffective, nothing has really changed form last season, his minutes should got to either Foye or Burks. Burks still won't play much, maybe 10 minutes a game, but it will be better than nothing. Hayward will be able to assert himself more with the second unit, and should get starter minutes (as in more minutes than Foye) even though he is coming off the bench.

Just my two cents on that, I'd like to see Corbin try some different lineups and rotations right now, it's pretty clear that there are some guys that just work better together, and I hope he tries to maximize that opportunity.

I see what you are saying.

Another idea, if Alec is simply not going to be in the rotation right now, is to play Mo more with the bench guys to give them that scoring punch, and let Jamal, who is more of a pass first, set up the offense type, run a little more with the starters. Right now it seems like Tinsley compliments Al better, so this might help.

No matter what, though, it's early in the season and there obviously needs to be some kind of change.

zero24gravity wrote:

I see what you are saying.

Another idea, if Alec is simply not going to be in the rotation right now, is to play Mo more with the bench guys to give them that scoring punch, and let Jamal, who is more of a pass first, set up the offense type, run a little more with the starters. Right now it seems like Tinsley compliments Al better, so this might help.

No matter what, though, it's early in the season and there obviously needs to be some kind of change.

I don't think Tinsley should play at all. I mean he looks ok, but the results are overwhelmingly, consistently, sub-par. The Jazz would be much better with Burks or Foye playing his minutes.

Probably coach doesn't feel comfortable starting the young wing featuring Burks/Wheeler. May be he decided to always play with a vet at the wing (Foye, MarvinW, Carroll or even Mo) now that he have some decent ones.

Or may be coach feels a Foye, Burks, Hayward lineup presents him with too many ballhandling in the second unit and not very much in the starting lineup. Moreover, Foye can't play with both units, dude has to rest sometimes I guess.

Too early to draw serious conclusions here. Who knows really?

That said, I think coaching staff is making a mistake. I like Tinsley, but there's no reason to play him ahead of
Burks. The argument that he's the only real point guard is mute; Jazz decided to play mostly havoc kind of basketball when they commited to Mo.

Both Mo and Foye need some additional ballhandling with them, and Wheeler and Burks can provide it... along with some additional trips to the charity stripe probably...

My take would be to start Burks instead of Julianne, see what happens and go from there. I think Burks deserves the same window of opportunity that Wheeler had. In fact may be a greater one, because this kid has all the intangibles, attitude that Wheeler clearly lacks right now.

TheMagnus wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

Hayward struggling to assert himself? Det. Wheeler's got talent, but his game attitude continues to be suspiciously sissy ?.

I don't think that is it at all. Kid has always been a team player first, I think he really tries to do what he feels like the team needs. When he's playing with vets who just do their thing because they know who they are he tries too hard to just blend in and be a complimentary player instead of just going out there and being himself and doing what he can do.

Besides, like I said before, he's playing well, really well in fact, but for whatever reason it seems he's not positively impacting the game while he's out there. My argument is that chemistry with the starting 5 has to be part of the issue, and he'd probably do better playing with the second unit.

Nothing against "team first" players. But you won't be taking the next step by playing 48 minutes of "team ball" where you have to think like a dozen options every time you touch the basketball. You need dudes to take it personally, to actually have some crazy mother fu... spurts a la Mo Williams. And I have this impression that Wheeler would die out of horror if his turn arrives. I think he will be a great player at 27 or 28. Right now he doesn't really scares anyone, even if he can do some nice $h|t out there.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

I see what you are saying.

Another idea, if Alec is simply not going to be in the rotation right now, is to play Mo more with the bench guys to give them that scoring punch, and let Jamal, who is more of a pass first, set up the offense type, run a little more with the starters. Right now it seems like Tinsley compliments Al better, so this might help.

No matter what, though, it's early in the season and there obviously needs to be some kind of change.

I don't think Tinsley should play at all. I mean he looks ok, but the results are overwhelmingly, consistently, sub-par. The Jazz would be much better with Burks or Foye playing his minutes.

Agreed. Just saying that if Ty is dead set on playing Tinsley, then maybe it'd work out to play him a bit more with Al.

outerspacefan wrote:

Nothing against "team first" players. But you won't be taking the next step by playing 48 minutes of "team ball" where you have to think like a dozen options every time you touch the basketball. You need dudes to take it personally, to actually have some crazy mother fu... spurts a la Mo Williams. And I have this impression that Wheeler would die out of horror if his turn arrives. I think he will be a great player at 27 or 28. Right now he doesn't really scares anyone, even if he can do some nice $h|t out there.

Very, very god point! Iverson and especially Carmelo could sign and prove it.

If Foye keeps the program going like he did v Lakers, good luck seeing Burks get many minutes at the 2. To Mags point, however, I sure would like to see Foye/Burks sharing the PG/SG in stretches, with Foye's ability to light up from the outside it only opens the lane more for Burks penetration. My guess is that the Jazz staff still aren't confident in Burk's ability to play any significant PG minutes, as witnessed by his shaky efforts when his defender plays hard on ball defense. Just the same, though, Tinsley, really?

vryadli wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

Nothing against "team first" players. But you won't be taking the next step by playing 48 minutes of "team ball" where you have to think like a dozen options every time you touch the basketball. You need dudes to take it personally, to actually have some crazy mother fu... spurts a la Mo Williams. And I have this impression that Wheeler would die out of horror if his turn arrives. I think he will be a great player at 27 or 28. Right now he doesn't really scares anyone, even if he can do some nice $h|t out there.

Very, very god point! Iverson and especially Carmelo could sign and prove it.

I think I said "a la Mo Williams" ... not "a la Carmelo Anthony"

Romoholic wrote:

therawns wrote:

I would do an article on this for the website, but lets be honest, nobody on a heat blog would read it.

Anyways, I will give you my 2 cents on the whole controversy of the game one basically DNP-CD. I support not playing him. Hey, if it is true Foye has been better in training camp, then he should get the minutes at SG off the bench. Make Burks work for it.

THis comes down to mental toughness. Will Burks work his butt off to get better, or does he sulk, and be sad? One reason why I think bad teams stay bad is because players dont have to work hard to get PT. Teams give lottery picks PT just because they are lottery picks sometimes. No make him work for it.

His time will come. THere will be an injury. When that injury happens, that will be his time to prove he deserves PT. Keep your head down, and keep competing. Shoot, on the back-to-back, coming up, id think of giving Tinsley the night off on the 2nd night of the back-to-back because of his age, and this helps get Burks in the game.

Thinking of tinsley, he looked shaky in the first game. If he keeps looking shaky, it might be time to play the foye/burks tandem. Give Tinsley time though for now.

"You play to win the game." Play whoever gives you the best chance to win. I am not all that worried right now about the lack of PT for Burks. It will come. Until then, it is just up to burks to stay ready. Right now, I do not see it as much of a big deal.

I was pissed about it at first, but then I came to the same conclusion you did. You have to earn your minutes every year. I like that strategy a lot. However then I thought, does Corbin always apply that? The answer is NO. Raja had absolutely no business stepping foot on the court for the Jazz last season and played a lot of minutes early on. Also going back to last season. Remember that hot streak we went on after Earl Watson got hurt and JT was the Backup? What happens, Watson gets to around 80% health and Corbin goes with him and JT gets a lot of DNPs and we go on a horrible streak. So yeah it's great to say best player plays, but He doesn't really apply it very evenly. I think a lot of the time Corbin looks at what a player could do or has done in the past and stubornly plays the player thinking that its a given that they will play that way again, regardless of whether or not it actually happens.

You're right Burks time will come. He just has to make so Coach has to put him in the game, because of his hard work and dedication. Kinda like what Kanter has done!

I think perhaps the reason Burks is not playing is because of some of the poor choices Coach Corbin made last year, Bell over anyone, Watson over JT, which proved to be a less than stellar decision. This may be a sign he's learning, especially given some of the line-ups he's gone with. It looks like he's trying different combos, which I think is a good idea, while using some of the things which worked well from last year.

Ok then, it took Corbin very little to frustrate Burks. Favors will take him more time, but I guess eventually he finally will stop Favors developement too. Kanter will probably be the last one to be frustrated; his great character will allow him to hold his great attitude... may be untill after midseason tradeline, when Corbin probably will ask for Al and Paul to stay so he can still play them ahead of the two third picks...
And people thought Sloan was stubborn

outerspacefan wrote:

Ok then, it took Corbin very little to frustrate Burks. Favors will take him more time, but I guess eventually he finally will stop Favors developement too. Kanter will probably be the last one to be frustrated; his great character will allow him to hold his great attitude... may be untill after midseason tradeline, when Corbin probably will ask for Al and Paul to stay so he can still play them ahead of the two third picks...
And people thought Sloan was stubborn

I'm not thrilled with coach Corbin's rotations and minute allocation either, but you never know about what kind of job security he feels he has. He is a young coach and might not feel like he can afford to wait for the young guys. I'm trying to give him some slack, but so far the team has not been well coached IMO.

zero24gravity wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

Ok then, it took Corbin very little to frustrate Burks. Favors will take him more time, but I guess eventually he finally will stop Favors developement too. Kanter will probably be the last one to be frustrated; his great character will allow him to hold his great attitude... may be untill after midseason tradeline, when Corbin probably will ask for Al and Paul to stay so he can still play them ahead of the two third picks...
And people thought Sloan was stubborn

I'm not thrilled with coach Corbin's rotations and minute allocation either, but you never know about what kind of job security he feels he has. He is a young coach and might not feel like he can afford to wait for the young guys. I'm trying to give him some slack, but so far the team has not been well coached IMO.

I could buy that except the young guys give us the best chance to win right now. Al looks like shit, and Milsap is looking like an average player. If he just threw Favors and Kanter out there, by midseason they would be killing it.

Romoholic wrote:

If he just threw Favors and Kanter out there, by midseason they would be killing it.

sure, but by that time Jazz would be out of playoff picture. Doubt Corbin wants to do that. Knowing Jazz and that they want to win now they are going to play big AL and Millsap as much as possible and let their contracts expire. Next season is when Favors and Kanter will be given major minutes. This year will be tough to watch though..