Free fall in Jazz Land

Oh, and there's also this, and this....

Which I think is a little funny given the fact that I hear Jazz fans and commentators talking about whats wrong with Paul Millsap and Mo Williams, but nary a word about how Al Jefferson, our leading scorer and highest usage player, may be single handedly destroying the Jazz season.

TheMagnus wrote:

Oh, and there's also this, and this....

Which I think is a little funny given the fact that I hear Jazz fans and commentators talking about whats wrong with Paul Millsap and Mo Williams, but nary a word about how Al Jefferson, our leading scorer and highest usage player, may be single handedly destroying the Jazz season.

Well IMO, you get all the props for wanting Al gone long ago, you haven't changed your stance on this. For me, I didn't think this team was built well enough, or had the ability to score the points and grab the rebounds he did, and needed to suffer his negatives to hold onto his positives. After watching this season though, it's plainly obvious that Al is more than expendable. And to compound that even more, is how detrimental he is to our other players and their abilities, and also to our overall team defense. The +/- in your link is staggering.

What is interesting is I'm trying to think of where Al needs to be for that team to be successful. And funny, what I think of is the Bulls. A highscoring, get his own buckets PG like Rose, and a defensive mobile big with him like Noah. And who is there with that team thats successful? None other than Boozer, who has similar faults to Al.
At this point, if Al is resigned this offseason, I will probably have to give in and just become a Wall and Beal fan out here.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Oh, and there's also this, and this....

Which I think is a little funny given the fact that I hear Jazz fans and commentators talking about whats wrong with Paul Millsap and Mo Williams, but nary a word about how Al Jefferson, our leading scorer and highest usage player, may be single handedly destroying the Jazz season.

Well IMO, you get all the props for wanting Al gone long ago, you haven't changed your stance on this. For me, I didn't think this team was built well enough, or had the ability to score the points and grab the rebounds he did, and needed to suffer his negatives to hold onto his positives. After watching this season though, it's plainly obvious that Al is more than expendable. And to compound that even more, is how detrimental he is to our other players and their abilities, and also to our overall team defense. The +/- in your link is staggering.

What is interesting is I'm trying to think of where Al needs to be for that team to be successful. And funny, what I think of is the Bulls. A highscoring, get his own buckets PG like Rose, and a defensive mobile big with him like Noah. And who is there with that team thats successful? None other than Boozer, who has similar faults to Al.
At this point, if Al is resigned this offseason, I will probably have to give in and just become a Wall and Beal fan out here.

Carlos Boozer >> Al Jefferson.

That's a fact.

TheMagnus wrote:

Carlos Boozer >>> Al Jefferson.

That's a fact.

Whoa, whoa, whoa ..... I know times are tough in Jazzland, but let's not get out of hand here.

Their defensive effort is similar, but if you consider the mass amount of games Carlos typically takes off for no good reason,
add his "I dont' give a crap, I just want mine" attitude, then consider that Al has that letter "C" for center on his player card,
and I would still take Al any day of the week of Booooozer. Other than being a more willing passer out of the post, I can't
think of anything I like more about Carlos' game. They are both very good post players, but Al, as stated by you in other threads,
is probably the best in the game.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Carlos Boozer >>> Al Jefferson.

That's a fact.

Whoa, whoa, whoa ..... I know times are tough in Jazzland, but let's not get out of hand here.

Their defensive effort is similar, but if you consider the mass amount of games Carlos typically takes off for no good reason,
add his "I dont' give a crap, I just want mine" attitude, then consider that Al has that letter "C" for center on his player card,
and I would still take Al any day of the week of Booooozer. Other than being a more willing passer out of the post, I can't
think of anything I like more about Carlos' game. They are both very good post players, but Al, as stated by you in other threads,
is probably the best in the game.

Well I'm not a huge believer that the old "C" makes any difference on the court, and I think the second best way to lock a franchise into mediocrity is to pay a guy like Jefferson $4-5 Million more than he's worth just because he's a "True Center" (the best way is to give a player that is not truly "elite" a Max contract).

But setting that asside, Boozer is actually a better overall defender than Al Jefferson, and I'm almost certain I said "one of the best" post players in the NBA. Boozer is up there, Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan...hard to say that Jefferson is really better than any of them.

But here's the numbers, and given the fact that they are so similar and the only real thing you can say in Jeffersons favor is that he's a "True Center", I'd say the numbers should be a pretty decent indicator of who is "better".

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=boozeca01&y1=2013&p2=jeffeal01&y2=2013

Also, going back a bit further, I reacall that my response to the Jefferson trade was tepid optimism. I recall feeling like Boozer was bit under appreciated by Jazz fans, but was definitly not worth keeping. And I felt like with Jefferson we were geting effectively a replacement Boozer, for good and bad, with the additional risk that he had "the stink of losing" on him. I recall that my optimism was in the fact that he was bigger and longer and that he hadn't played on a decent team so once he washed the stik off he could be even better for the Jazz than Boozer was. The optimism was never realized.

Another thing I would like to point out is that as far as I can tell the entire reason we are where we are now is because of the summer of 2010. What an unmitigated disaster that summer was.

First the Jazz lost Memo to what was effectively a career ending injury in the playoffs. Then, because of the Jazz refusal to make a trade for Boozer, AK, or Memo the previous year to free up some cap room they had to let their best 3 wings go in free agency (Brewer, Korver, and Wes Matthews), non of whom were paid more than the mid-level on thier offers. They also pulled a sign and trade for Boozer, which they flipped, along with a first round pick (ended up being #18 last year) and Kosta Koufos for Al Jefferson.

But we're not done yet!! In order to get below the luxury tax line the previous season the Jazz had dumped promising young backup PG Eric Maynor along with Matt Harprings-expiring-contract. The Jazz had bought in D-League standouts Sundiata Gains and Otheus Jeffers to fill the roster spots, and both played well, but both were let go at the end of the season, so the Jazz went out and signed veteran PG Earl Watson. Then to cap things off, because they had no faith in Big Fes and felt they were still thin in the frontcourt without Memo, they went out and signed Francisco Elson.

So, in summary, the Jazz lost Memo Okur and let Ronnie Brewer, Kyle Korver, Wesely Matthews, Kosta Koufos, Carlos Boozer, Eric Maynor, and Sundiata Gains go...

...and they replaced them with Raja Bell, Earl Watson, Francisco Elson, Al Jefferson, (draft) Gordon Hayward, and (draft) Jeremy Evans.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but holy crap.

Pretty easy to see why D-Will wasn't impressed and wouldn't sign an extention. Compound that frustration by the fact that his two best friends on the team (Brewer and Korver) had just walked away, and that he and Sloan had to teach what was basically a whole new team "the right way to play", he melts down, Jerry gets fed up and quits, blockbuster trade, lockout....and here we are.

TheMagnus wrote:

Another thing I would like to point out is that as far as I can tell the entire reason we are where we are now is because of the summer of 2010. What an unmitigated disaster that summer was.

First the Jazz lost Memo to what was effectively a career ending injury in the playoffs. Then, because of the Jazz refusal to make a trade for Boozer, AK, or Memo the previous year to free up some cap room they had to let their best 3 wings go in free agency (Brewer, Korver, and Wes Matthews), non of whom were paid more than the mid-level on thier offers. They also pulled a sign and trade for Boozer, which they flipped, along with a first round pick (ended up being #18 last year) and Kosta Koufos for Al Jefferson.

But we're not done yet!! In order to get below the luxury tax line the previous season the Jazz had dumped promising young backup PG Eric Maynor along with Matt Harprings-expiring-contract. The Jazz had bought in D-League standouts Sundiata Gains and Otheus Jeffers to fill the roster spots, and both played well, but both were let go at the end of the season, so the Jazz went out and signed veteran PG Earl Watson. Then to cap things off, because they had no faith in Big Fes and felt they were still thin in the frontcourt without Memo, they went out and signed Francisco Elson.

So, in summary, the Jazz lost Memo Okur and let Ronnie Brewer, Kyle Korver, Wesely Matthews, Kosta Koufos, Carlos Boozer, Eric Maynor, and Sundiata Gains go...

...and they replaced them with Raja Bell, Earl Watson, Francisco Elson, Al Jefferson, (draft) Gordon Hayward, and (draft) Jeremy Evans.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but holy crap.

Pretty easy to see why D-Will wasn't impressed and wouldn't sign an extention. Compound that frustration by the fact that his two best friends on the team (Brewer and Korver) had just walked away, and that he and Sloan had to teach what was basically a whole new team "the right way to play", he melts down, Jerry gets fed up and quits, blockbuster trade, lockout....and here we are.

Haaaaahahahaha, I HATE MY TEAM!!

fml.

Well, lets see. Is there a reason we discuss this team anymore??

Randy Foye: 27:35mins, 3-10, 2 rebs, 2to's.
Jefferson: 42mins
Millsap: 24mins
Underkanter: 5:07
DC3: DNP

Hmm. Well that sure seems like a recipe for a loss.

Hayward continues to play his ass off though (Where you at on Gordo Calgary C???)

How'd Burks look Coach??? What? He looked great?? You mean like he has all year?? GREAT!! Lets keep starting Foye, good call.

All the wrong players playing with all the wrong guys. Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) CONTINUING the recipe for FAILURE. He is truly a terrible coach.

But guess what!!?? We no longer have to worry about confusing this team with a playoff team.....a playoff team does not go 3-10 its last 13games.


PS: How do we feel now about Raja and him going off about how unprofessional Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) was??? I know I may have shifted.

Ya hear that?
If you'll go outside right now and turn your ear towards ESA (aka Radium Stadium) you can hear the melodic strains of THE FAT LADY SINGING.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

Ya hear that?
If you'll go outside right now and turn your ear towards ESA (aka Radium Stadium) you can hear the melodic strains of THE FAT LADY SINGING.

The fat lady already sang about a month ago, I think you missed her performance.

thejazzkickazz wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

Ya hear that?
If you'll go outside right now and turn your ear towards ESA (aka Radium Stadium) you can hear the melodic strains of THE FAT LADY SINGING.

The fat lady already sang about a month ago, I think you missed her performance.

She's giving a special encore performance tonight,...just in case anyone missed it. It's part of her Farewell to Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) tour.

TheMagnus wrote:

But here's the numbers, and given the fact that they are so similar and the only real thing you can say in Jeffersons favor is that he's a "True Center", I'd say the numbers should be a pretty decent indicator of who is "better".

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=boozeca01&y1=2013&p2=jeffeal01&y2=2013

Those aren't the only numbers. I am not promoting hiring Jefferson (or Boozer) for five more years, but Jefferson beats Boozer fairly handily this season in many measures of overall productivity: Tendex, Hollinger's PER (personal efficiency ratio), Hollinger's VA (value added), Hollinger's EWA (estimated wins added), NBA.com PIE (player impact estimate) and NBA.com Efficiency. Jefferson even looks a little better on the basketball-reference.com website when you compare just this season.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

She's giving a special encore performance tonight,...just in case anyone missed it. It's part of her Farewell to Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) tour.

Hopefully a coming replacement of Ty Co by a good coach will be the silver lining from all these losses! (piling on)

Crunchtime1 wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

But here's the numbers, and given the fact that they are so similar and the only real thing you can say in Jeffersons favor is that he's a "True Center", I'd say the numbers should be a pretty decent indicator of who is "better".

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=boozeca01&y1=2013&p2=jeffeal01&y2=2013

Those aren't the only numbers. I am not promoting hiring Jefferson (or Boozer) for five more years, but Jefferson beats Boozer fairly handily this season in many measures of overall productivity: Tendex, Hollinger's PER (personal efficiency ratio), Hollinger's VA (value added), Hollinger's EWA (estimated wins added), NBA.com PIE (player impact estimate) and NBA.com Efficiency. Jefferson even looks a little better on the basketball-reference.com website when you compare just this season.

Sure, just this season. Last season was Jefferson's best as a pro and Boozer was still better than him. Both those guys have been in the NBA for a lot of years, and over their career's Boozer has been better, on top of that he has been a winner, and while that isn't all about him, it definitely counts for something.

TheMagnus wrote:

... on top of that he (Boozer) has been a winner, and while that isn't all about him, it definitely counts for something.

You have a point there indeed. For some reason Big Al's game doesn't traslate into team success.

outerspacefan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

... on top of that he (Boozer) has been a winner, and while that isn't all about him, it definitely counts for something.

You have a point there indeed. For some reason Big Al's game doesn't traslate into team success.

I don't recall Allen, Garnett or Gasol being "winners" until being surrounded by world-class talent and coaching. I know folks are frustrated by the season, me too, but putting this on Al is ridiculous. He simply was not surrounded with the right pieces and coaching to make a deep playoff run. And I might add, Sap has hardly been a stud over the last couple months. His game is more and more locking into rising and falling with team performance - he does not rise above, lift up, lead when everyone else is struggling. In other words, a complimentary piece who needs better players/leaders around him. I wouldn't mind at all if the Jazz move on from him as long as they bring on adequate/upside guys to back up our new starting paint rotation of Fav/Kanter.

Gotta love GH's effort - deja vu to last year with at late season push that gave us something to look forward to.

MTJazz wrote:

outerspacefan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

... on top of that he (Boozer) has been a winner, and while that isn't all about him, it definitely counts for something.

You have a point there indeed. For some reason Big Al's game doesn't traslate into team success.

I don't recall Allen, Garnett or Gasol being "winners" until being surrounded by world-class talent and coaching. I know folks are frustrated by the season, me too, but putting this on Al is ridiculous. He simply was not surrounded with the right pieces and coaching to make a deep playoff run. And I might add, Sap has hardly been a stud over the last couple months. His game is more and more locking into rising and falling with team performance - he does not rise above, lift up, lead when everyone else is struggling. In other words, a complimentary piece who needs better players/leaders around him. I wouldn't mind at all if the Jazz move on from him as long as they bring on adequate/upside guys to back up our new starting paint rotation of Fav/Kanter.

Gotta love GH's effort - deja vu to last year with at late season push that gave us something to look forward to.

In terms of measurable impact on team success, Millsap is an All-Star and Jefferson is D-League. Millsap is in the relm of Allen, Garnett, and Gasol in term of positive team impact (click here to see what I'm talking about). Garnett, Allen, and Gasol all played for playoff teams, teams that got significantly worse with their departure (for none ofhter than Big Al in the case of Garnett), before they went to their championship teams, and even, no ESPECIALLY, when they were on crappy teams they translated their box scores into a positive impact for their team, the biggest problem they presented to their teams was that they couldn't play 48 minutes every night. That has simply never been the case for Al, he always does was he does, and his teams are rarely better for it.

And as far as "the last couple of months" goes, perhaps it is good to remember that Millsap was never the "anchor" of this team, he hasn't had the offensive and defensive schemes designed around his game, he's not leading the team in both usage and minutes played, he's not making $14 Million dollars this year, and then click on the links below and try to say that again with a straight face...

TheMagnus wrote:

Oh, and there's also this, and this....

Which I think is a little funny given the fact that I hear Jazz fans and commentators talking about whats wrong with Paul Millsap and Mo Williams, but nary a word about how Al Jefferson, our leading scorer and highest usage player, may be single handedly destroying the Jazz season.

Really nice article that almost perfectly sums up my feeling about the Jazz and Al Jefferson right now....


http://utahsportsnet.com/blog/2013/03/21/utah-jazz-role-play/

TheMagnus wrote:

Really nice article that almost perfectly sums up my feeling about the Jazz and Al Jefferson right now....


http://utahsportsnet.com/blog/2013/03/21/utah-jazz-role-play/

I can't imagine this to be true, but after reading about Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) and his "frosty" treatment on fans & media, it made me wonder for just a second if he has become so defensive that he is now doing the opposite of what fans/media are saying needs to be done, just to prove that HE is the coach.

TheMagnus wrote:

Sure, just this season. Last season was Jefferson's best as a pro and Boozer was still better than him.

Life is too short to spend a lot of time arguing about two players that neither of us want to pay 15 mill per year and believes are indispensable, but Jefferson handily beats Boozer in every one of those categories I named above, Tendex, Hollinger's PER (personal efficiency ratio), Hollinger's VA (value added), Hollinger's EWA (estimated wins added), NBA.com PIE (player impact estimate) and NBA.com Efficiency EACH OF THE LAST THREE SEASONS since the switch from Boozer to Jefferson. Jefferson has a worse defensive rating on NBA.com this season, but for crying out loud, I have often times seen Thibs take Boozer out of the game on defensive possessions at clutch time during the playoffs. Maybe Thibs does it during the regular season too; I don't know. And it is easier to get a higher defensive rating when Noah is backing you up protecting the rim.

As for Boozer "winning" at Chicago, if I had a choice between lining up Jefferson or Boozer at PF alongside Noah at Center in Chicago (Jefferson has played a lot of PF in the past), I would take Jefferson. JMHO.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Sure, just this season. Last season was Jefferson's best as a pro and Boozer was still better than him.

Life is too short to spend a lot of time arguing about two players that neither of us want to pay 15 mill per year and believes are indispensable, but Jefferson handily beats Boozer in every one of those categories I named above, Tendex, Hollinger's PER (personal efficiency ratio), Hollinger's VA (value added), Hollinger's EWA (estimated wins added), NBA.com PIE (player impact estimate) and NBA.com Efficiency EACH OF THE LAST THREE SEASONS since the switch from Boozer to Jefferson. Jefferson has a worse defensive rating on NBA.com this season, but for crying out loud, I have often times seen Thibs take Boozer out of the game on defensive possessions at clutch time during the playoffs. Maybe Thibs does it during the regular season too; I don't know. And it is easier to get a higher defensive rating when Noah is backing you up protecting the rim.

As for Boozer "winning" at Chicago, if I had a choice between lining up Jefferson or Boozer at PF alongside Noah at Center in Chicago (Jefferson has played a lot of PF in the past), I would take Jefferson. JMHO.

Fair enough. Agree to dissagree. You are right about the ultimate conclusion being the same of course, and at this point if I had to chose between Jefferson and Boozer I would refuse, take my ball, and go home.

I am becomming a big believer in Dennis Lindseys declaration that the Jazz "Will never pay more than market value for a player". Paying players like Jefferson and Boozer franchise centerpiece money is probably one of the worst mistakes a team can make.

Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) continues to amaze me:

"We've used them before (together) and we'll continue to use them, maybe a little bit more," Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) said. "But we're looking at everything right now. We've got to try everything we have on the wall right now to see what gives us the best chance."

This is in reference to Burks and Hayward playing together and being successful. Well no shit Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013), we all saw it in December. It's amazing how this team can plummet from 7th seed to losing 10 of the last 13 and just now, FINALLY, Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) is seeing these things.
But still, no Millsap in the 4th, no DC at all last few games, UnderKanter being so extremely productive yet only playing 5 minutes......it all is so shocking.
If Keith Smart wasn't doing such a bad job in Sac, Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) would be the talk of the NBA as the one coach who played his team into mediocrity or worse.

It's amazing all the articles out there now for months showing exactly what IS and what IS NOT effective for the team:

Gordon Hayward playing most minutes.
Big 3 more effective with GH vs Foye
Kanter a part of the big 3 vs Al
Watson/Tinsley completely ineffective
Burks/Hayward VERY effective
DC and his disruptive play huge boost to lineups
Marv ineffective starting.
Foye ineffective starting.
Al ruining everyone's game.
How much better the defense is with Kanter on the floor.
And more and more and more.....


And yet, the only ones on earth who aren't reacting to all the glorious info out there, is Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) etc. How has it taken him this long (and still effing it up) ???

As long as we continue to see Foye in the starting lineup it is clear that Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) just simply does not get it. He was way too late bringing Hayward back into the starting lineup (as evidenced by his all-around game and 20+ ppg in that role). He is doggedly letting Mo shoot us out of games despite the fact it's clear his game deteriorated significantly while he was out. Its criminal that DC is back to DNP's and the same might be said of his almost complete lack of utilization of Evans. And what did Kanter do that earned effectively end of bench minutes all the sudden?

While no, none of us are on those long plane rides, at practices, or in the locker room, it doesn't take a PhD in psychology to recognize that the team has lost its fire and chemistry. Until proven otherwise, and because everyone around the organization keep referring to the Jazz players as "high character guys", I place this meltdown squarely on Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013)'s head. Just listening to the commentators, Thurl, Locke, Harpring, Boone and more, guys who intimately know the game and the the team, it is pretty obvious they are struggling not to say out loud what is obvious to the rest of us. The Jazz are in free fall this season, something went horribly wrong with a pretty damn talented roster.

We are now left with trying to get excited about next year, the development of our guys, the dream that somehow we will get some FA's that compliment the young core, that the Jazz are building for a crescendo in the next 2-3 years and relevancy in the West. Don't know about you guys, but that excitement is seriously tamped down in my world whenever I try to envision this with Ty at the helm. One can only hope that Mags "auto-correct" text message whenever the second worst coach in the league is named, proves prophetic!

MTJazz wrote:

As long as we continue to see Foye in the starting lineup it is clear that Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013) just simply does not get it. He was way too late bringing Hayward back into the starting lineup (as evidenced by his all-around game and 20+ ppg in that role). He is doggedly letting Mo shoot us out of games despite the fact it's clear his game deteriorated significantly while he was out. Its criminal that DC is back to DNP's and the same might be said of his almost complete lack of utilization of Evans. And what did Kanter do that earned effectively end of bench minutes all the sudden?

While no, none of us are on those long plane rides, at practices, or in the locker room, it doesn't take a PhD in psychology to recognize that the team has lost its fire and chemistry. Until proven otherwise, and because everyone around the organization keep referring to the Jazz players as "high character guys", I place this meltdown squarely on Ty Co (former Utah Jazz coach 2011-2013)'s head. Just listening to the commentators, Thurl, Locke, Harpring, Boone and more, guys who intimately know the game and the the team, it is pretty obvious they are struggling not to say out loud what is obvious to the rest of us. The Jazz are in free fall this season, something went horribly wrong with a pretty damn talented roster.

We are now left with trying to get excited about next year, the development of our guys, the dream that somehow we will get some FA's that compliment the young core, that the Jazz are building for a crescendo in the next 2-3 years and relevancy in the West. Don't know about you guys, but that excitement is seriously tamped down in my world whenever I try to envision this with Ty at the helm. One can only hope that Mags "auto-correct" text message whenever the second worst coach in the league is named, proves prophetic!

I agree completely MT and looks like we were on the same thought process as I posted at the same time.
It's so bad now, that I wonder who I want back less, Ty or Al next year......

Also, how sad is it that we dont even really have anything to discuss on the board anymore? Anybody here actually have one shred of thought that Utah might beat the Spurs tonight?? Noooo....... I mean, like, nothing to discuss. You can only express shock and awe so many times on here.....

Mutangclan wrote:

Also, how sad is it that we dont even really have anything to discuss on the board anymore? Anybody here actually have one shred of thought that Utah might beat the Spurs tonight?? Noooo....... I mean, like, nothing to discuss. You can only express shock and awe so many times on here.....

True, dat. I think we are all fairly depressed by the team at this point and very little of that centers around anger at the players for being dicks, not caring, not showing up, etc. The meltdown feels truly systemic, from the player juju, the coaching, all the way up to the FO and the Millers. In the past we had the luxury of "believing" in that aspect of the Jazz and now I don't have that belief at all. An actively managed franchise would have: a) stopped the bleeding well before the patient had bled out or, b) tell the patients next of kin that the patient is terminal but "don't worry, we have a very good succession plan in order." I respect that a classy and pro organization doesn't put out PR pieces after every little blip or trouble but in this case I think they should be more forthcoming. Afterall, they are already marketing next year's season tickets, (and had the poor timing of doing so during the last Knicks game when they were crushing the Jazz by like 20 points. Nice timing!)