GTS New York @ Utah 3/18/13

OK...I am a self-admitted armchair quarterback. So, someone with more basketball savvy than me, please explain to me why DC and Evans didn't get off the bench last night. What is the one thing those two bring instantly? ENERGY. What is the one thing the Jazz lacked sorely last night? ENERGY. I just don't understand it.

Also...Why is Watson getting any burn at all? I may get crucified for saying this, but I think Jamaal Tinsely is the best point guard on this team. Why he is buried on the bench below Watson, I will never understand.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

OK...I am a self-admitted armchair quarterback. So, someone with more basketball savvy than me, please explain to me why DC and Evans didn't get off the bench last night. What is the one thing those two bring instantly? ENERGY. What is the one thing the Jazz lacked sorely last night? ENERGY. I just don't understand it.

Also...Why is Watson getting any burn at all? I may get crucified for saying this, but I think Jamaal Tinsely is the best point guard on this team. Why he is buried on the bench below Watson, I will never understand.

Good question, why is WAtson? But the better answer is not Tinsely, it's play Burks at the one. Burks needs alot of help playing the one, but there is no way in hell he isn't better out there now then Tinsely and Watson.
So, of course, if Burks is in instead, that also opens up minutes for DC. I dont think you go 10 deep at this point, but DC has shown to be an absolute boost to this team. To not play him is stupid.
Watson plays 17mins last night to Burks 13mins??? Or you effing insane Ty Corbin? Great call, GREAT call Coach. Another epic FAIL in a FULL season of epic fails.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

This is not an overreaction response, but I think the thing to do at this point is to fire TyCo...now. Right now. Hire Hornacek as the interim coach for the rest of the year with no promise of any job next year....give him a shot. He seems intelligent. He can't screw it up more than TyCo has. At the end of the year, open up job and hire the best applicant.

We are officially unable to win now and rebuild and the same time....so it's time to rebuild.

I don't think you fire him now. Not when you are technically still in the playoff hunt and technically only 1 game back. I think you have to let this season play out. Firing him now isn't going to do anybody any good, it will just create more confusion and uncertainty.

I understand your point, and normally I would agree with you. However, he has lost this team. Last night was the "stick a fork in 'em" game (most likely). And while they are statistically still in the playoff hunt, let's not kid anyone....they aren't going to make it. Too tough of a row to hoe.

My reasoning behind firing him now is that the Jazz really like to hire from within. This way, it gives them a chance to give Horny a look for a handful of games. No, it may not be the most fair tryout, but at least they can say they gave him a look.

Yes, firing him now may create confusion and uncertainty, but we are there now. We live in confusion and uncertainty. Tell me DC, Evans, Tinsely, even Kanter aren't confused and uncertain right now. The fans sure are. The players are...you can see it in their faces.

Maybe this is why I wouldn't make a good GM, but I sure don't see the problem firing him right now...IF they are going to fire him. Now, if they are stubborn and KNOW 100% they want to retain him, then the point is moot. But if they are planning to let him go, now is as good of a time as any.

I'm with you on TyCo, I think 70% of the problems this team is having right now are directly related to coaching, and I think from the quotes and interviews I've seen everybody in the Jazz organization knows that if this season ends like this that TyCo is gone.

That said, I don't think the team has quit on Ty, not yet, they are just playing like ass. There have been multiple eye-whitness accounts from fans and the front office in the last week that unanimously declare that the Team is still commited to Ty. I also think that as a matter of principle you don't fire a coach in the middle of a battle for the playoffs, even if you think you know how it's going to end. It sends a bad message to the players and to the next coach you might be looking to hire. On top of that do you really think it would change anything in the short term? The new coach is still going to play Jefferson and Mo and Foye and Marvin, Evans still probably won't play, they will still be running the same schemes and plays, and the new coach will just be like a substitute teacher trying to guide the players through the rest of the season.

I also don't think that hiring from within is a given at this point, in fact I would be very very surprised if they did that. I don't think anybody on that bench is ready to be a head coach.

I actually saw something a few days ago talking about how not trading either Al or Paul at the deadline actually created more confusion, because nobody was able to move on. If one of them had been traded then the other could resonably say "I could likely be playing here next year". On top of that the young players would have a better idea that they needed to step up and lead because their time had come. Instead now you have a situation where (pure speculation) none of the vets have any idea what their future holds and the young guys are reluctant to usurp the role of their veteran captains and really lead out. Nobody is comfortable with their status on the team, and so nobody is comfortable with their role. TyCo is just making that worse by playing lineup roulete and failing to play players that have earned minutes. I think that is what we are seeing on the court more than them quitting on Ty, a team that has no identitiy and no direction.

TheMagnus wrote:

I actually saw something a few days ago talking about how not trading either Al or Paul at the deadline actually created more confusion, because nobody was able to move on. If one of them had been traded then the other could resonably say "I could likely be playing here next year". On top of that the young players would have a better idea that they needed to step up and lead because their time had come. Instead now you have a situation where (pure speculation) none of the vets have any idea what their future holds and the young guys are reluctant to usurp the role of their veteran captains and really lead out. Nobody is comfortable with their status on the team, and so nobody is comfortable with their role. TyCo is just making that worse by playing lineup roulete and failing to play players that have earned minutes. I think that is what we are seeing on the court more than them quitting on Ty, a team that has no identitiy and no direction.

Definitely the case I think, with the bigs not knowing their role. Nobody can feel secure. I think thats leading to uncomfortableness.

Tyco's roulette is seriously detrimental though. A coach needs to be in control of a team, they need to know who the boss is, soldiers need to lineup to fight sort of thing. You think any of these guys are happy just "doing their role"? No, because they dont even know what it is. And it is showing on the court, the all over the place type of play, looking all confused, bad shot taking. It's OBVIOUS.
I think the only guy on the entire team who is happy doing his role, is UnderKanter. He's the only one, and doing well. Everyone else is pissed.

TheMagnus wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

This is not an overreaction response, but I think the thing to do at this point is to fire TyCo...now. Right now. Hire Hornacek as the interim coach for the rest of the year with no promise of any job next year....give him a shot. He seems intelligent. He can't screw it up more than TyCo has. At the end of the year, open up job and hire the best applicant.

We are officially unable to win now and rebuild and the same time....so it's time to rebuild.

I don't think you fire him now. Not when you are technically still in the playoff hunt and technically only 1 game back. I think you have to let this season play out. Firing him now isn't going to do anybody any good, it will just create more confusion and uncertainty.

I understand your point, and normally I would agree with you. However, he has lost this team. Last night was the "stick a fork in 'em" game (most likely). And while they are statistically still in the playoff hunt, let's not kid anyone....they aren't going to make it. Too tough of a row to hoe.

My reasoning behind firing him now is that the Jazz really like to hire from within. This way, it gives them a chance to give Horny a look for a handful of games. No, it may not be the most fair tryout, but at least they can say they gave him a look.

Yes, firing him now may create confusion and uncertainty, but we are there now. We live in confusion and uncertainty. Tell me DC, Evans, Tinsely, even Kanter aren't confused and uncertain right now. The fans sure are. The players are...you can see it in their faces.

Maybe this is why I wouldn't make a good GM, but I sure don't see the problem firing him right now...IF they are going to fire him. Now, if they are stubborn and KNOW 100% they want to retain him, then the point is moot. But if they are planning to let him go, now is as good of a time as any.

I'm with you on TyCo, I think 70% of the problems this team is having right now are directly related to coaching, and I think from the quotes and interviews I've seen everybody in the Jazz organization knows that if this season ends like this that TyCo is gone.

That said, I don't think the team has quit on Ty, not yet, they are just playing like ass. There have been multiple eye-whitness accounts from fans and the front office in the last week that unanimously declare that the Team is still commited to Ty. I also think that as a matter of principle you don't fire a coach in the middle of a battle for the playoffs, even if you think you know how it's going to end. It sends a bad message to the players and to the next coach you might be looking to hire. On top of that do you really think it would change anything in the short term? The new coach is still going to play Jefferson and Mo and Foye and Marvin, Evans still probably won't play, they will still be running the same schemes and plays, and the new coach will just be like a substitute teacher trying to guide the players through the rest of the season.

I also don't think that hiring from within is a given at this point, in fact I would be very very surprised if they did that. I don't think anybody on that bench is ready to be a head coach.

I actually saw something a few days ago talking about how not trading either Al or Paul at the deadline actually created more confusion, because nobody was able to move on. If one of them had been traded then the other could resonably say "I could likely be playing here next year". On top of that the young players would have a better idea that they needed to step up and lead because their time had come. Instead now you have a situation where (pure speculation) none of the vets have any idea what their future holds and the young guys are reluctant to usurp the role of their veteran captains and really lead out. Nobody is comfortable with their status on the team, and so nobody is comfortable with their role. TyCo is just making that worse by playing lineup roulete and failing to play players that have earned minutes. I think that is what we are seeing on the court more than them quitting on Ty, a team that has no identitiy and no direction.

You definitely make sense.
I guess if ya don't fire TyCo, you basically give him plenty of rope to hang himself. If you ride out the storm and it stays ugly...you are probably more justified in firing him than you are at this point.
At this point...the draft pick isn't going to change a whole lot whether or not you make the playoffs. It will fluctuate a little, but with the two possible picks, hopefully they can move up to wherever it takes to pick Burke.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

You definitely make sense.
I guess if ya don't fire TyCo, you basically give him plenty of rope to hang himself. If you ride out the storm and it stays ugly...you are probably more justified in firing him than you are at this point.
At this point...the draft pick isn't going to change a whole lot whether or not you make the playoffs. It will fluctuate a little, but with the two possible picks, hopefully they can move up to wherever it takes to pick Burke.

Well if they keep playing like this I think they could fall to 10th in the west, which would give them the 13th pick, if they make the playoffs they are likely either 15th or 16th.

My great hope for this season is that the Warriors will lose some more games. If the season ended today the GS pick would be #20, but a couple extra losses could drop that all the way down to #15 or #16.

Two picks in the mid teens would be very nice.

Of course the last time the Jazz had two picks in the mid-teens it didn't go so well....

Oh, by the way ....


Knicks (without Chandler, Amare & Melo) won by 7
Jazz shot a better 3%


Mo taking bad shots, Jefferson getting nothing going toward the basket against K.Thomas & freakin' Copeland (who outworked both Al & Paul regularly). Favors shot only 1-7, but he's not a scorer so I can live with it because he had 13 boards & his aggresion gave him the best +/- (at -1)on the team, but he still got only 21 minutes. ..... and no DC again!

zero24gravity wrote:

Oh, by the way ....


Knicks (without Chandler, Amare & Melo) won by 7
Jazz shot a better 3%


Mo taking bad shots, Jefferson getting nothing going toward the basket against K.Thomas & freakin' Copeland (who outworked both Al & Paul regularly). Favors shot only 1-7, but he's not a scorer so I can live with it because he had 13 boards & his aggresion gave him the best +/- (at -1)on the team, but he still got only 21 minutes. ..... and no DC again!

Favors was rape any time he went to shot the ball. Freaking rookie treatment is what happens when a player dont get enough time and then gets no calls. Raped! Kid should've picked up dinner after the way he raped favors on the floor.

Richardale wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Oh, by the way ....


Knicks (without Chandler, Amare & Melo) won by 7
Jazz shot a better 3%


Mo taking bad shots, Jefferson getting nothing going toward the basket against K.Thomas & freakin' Copeland (who outworked both Al & Paul regularly). Favors shot only 1-7, but he's not a scorer so I can live with it because he had 13 boards & his aggresion gave him the best +/- (at -1)on the team, but he still got only 21 minutes. ..... and no DC again!

Favors was rape any time he went to shot the ball. Freaking rookie treatment is what happens when a player dont get enough time and then gets no calls. Raped! Kid should've picked up dinner after the way he raped favors on the floor.

I don't know, I kind of felt like Favors was a little soft and timid out there. Sure he was getting owned by a 90 year old, and sure the calls weren't going his way, but I was actually disappointed in Favors' game. At some point ya gotta break out the nasty and let them know you can't be pushed around like that....if it costs ya a T, it costs ya a T.

Richardale wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Oh, by the way ....


Knicks (without Chandler, Amare & Melo) won by 7
Jazz shot a better 3%


Mo taking bad shots, Jefferson getting nothing going toward the basket against K.Thomas & freakin' Copeland (who outworked both Al & Paul regularly). Favors shot only 1-7, but he's not a scorer so I can live with it because he had 13 boards & his aggresion gave him the best +/- (at -1)on the team, but he still got only 21 minutes. ..... and no DC again!

Favors was rape any time he went to shot the ball. Freaking rookie treatment is what happens when a player dont get enough time and then gets no calls. Raped! Kid should've picked up dinner after the way he raped favors on the floor.

It's not always the refs Richard, man.

Favors looked timid, lost, uncomfortable and NOT ready. Thomas is a smart savvy defender, but Favors still did not look good. And it 100% was not the refs.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

Richardale wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Oh, by the way ....


Knicks (without Chandler, Amare & Melo) won by 7
Jazz shot a better 3%


Mo taking bad shots, Jefferson getting nothing going toward the basket against K.Thomas & freakin' Copeland (who outworked both Al & Paul regularly). Favors shot only 1-7, but he's not a scorer so I can live with it because he had 13 boards & his aggresion gave him the best +/- (at -1)on the team, but he still got only 21 minutes. ..... and no DC again!

Favors was rape any time he went to shot the ball. Freaking rookie treatment is what happens when a player dont get enough time and then gets no calls. Raped! Kid should've picked up dinner after the way he raped favors on the floor.

I don't know, I kind of felt like Favors was a little soft and timid out there. Sure he was getting owned by a 90 year old, and sure the calls weren't going his way, but I was actually disappointed in Favors' game. At some point ya gotta break out the nasty and let them know you can't be pushed around like that....if it costs ya a T, it costs ya a T.

Oh 100 % agree DF needs more nasty. Refs sit back and watche him get rape, He need to let refs freaking know it BS he never gets any calls. Get the T and if he needs to get thrown out so be it! He runs back like ok no biggie. BS, He fouled me, call the F in foul! If not Plz let me know your whistle works by giving me the T, At least they know he'll let people know and in time that will change. Man needs to stand up for himself when he feels its a bad call. Its the why allstars act.All the top players talk with the refs. He can do it in a laid back way at first and if that don't work take the T. And yes i think the refs suck 80% of the time.To much allstar treatment going on.

Mutangclan wrote:

Richardale wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

Oh, by the way ....


Knicks (without Chandler, Amare & Melo) won by 7
Jazz shot a better 3%


Mo taking bad shots, Jefferson getting nothing going toward the basket against K.Thomas & freakin' Copeland (who outworked both Al & Paul regularly). Favors shot only 1-7, but he's not a scorer so I can live with it because he had 13 boards & his aggresion gave him the best +/- (at -1)on the team, but he still got only 21 minutes. ..... and no DC again!

Favors was rape any time he went to shot the ball. Freaking rookie treatment is what happens when a player dont get enough time and then gets no calls. Raped! Kid should've picked up dinner after the way he raped favors on the floor.

It's not always the refs Richard, man.

Favors looked timid, lost, uncomfortable and NOT ready. Thomas is a smart savvy defender, but Favors still did not look good. And it 100% was not the refs.

So Kid can hang on his arm and its not a foul? Next play Thomas fouls his arm and then bitches about the jazz get the ball back, so refs get together and over turn the call and give it back to the knicks? That's freaking flat out wrong! Could jazz play threw it and win? just makes it alot harder when refs bending your arse over and? you know! Let not blame it all on Ty Co all the time Tang. Players coach and refs. sometimes jazz just flat out get out played. Sometimes out coached, Other times just flat out screwed with refs bad calls.