predictions on Favors 13/14 season

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Professo_Sloan wrote:

If I'm towel boy then you're skeet rag, cuz this is plain embarrassing. It's like you never watched the great Karl Malone one game. You realize the rules limit two steps don't you son?

Let me give you a lesson here. Calm down your Favors worship and learn a little. Ain't nothin wrong with that.

See, what teams do is crowd the ball handler because Favors don't got that outside pop shot. He's like 27% or something, but I don't spect you are aware. So if they hit Favors with a roll pass all the defense does is scoot the low guard over to take that charge, see. Favors usually mows him over and turns the ball over.

I can pay for synergy and embarrass you with data which will obviously show that Favors converted pick and rolls on highest rate on the team with only occasional charge. But there is really no need for that as it is obvious to anybody who watched the Jazz that Favors is the best pick and roll finisher Jazz have and it is not even close. Neither Big AL nor Millsap play pick and roll as well and Kanter until this season was horrible at pick and roll and doubt he completed a single play in his rookie season. See, that dribble what you talking is very minimal part of it and not always necessary. How much dribbling Amare ( who is very similar to Favors when it comes to athletism and agility) was doing when Nash was feeding him during his Suns days? This example form Nash running pick and roll - how many times finisher dribbled? You can count and tell me % ok, lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FcVuag7KvE


Most important part is to know when and how to set a screen and where and how fast you roll towards the basket. And Favors is the best at that, nobody can do it better then him - Big AL for example is horrible at rolling and Kanter is bad at setting the pick ( he improved a lot this season though). I am not even talking about finishing the play where Favors again has huge advantage due to his quickness and explosiveness.
See this...Who can do it better then Favors on the Jazz?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H855dml_IOw


And you 27% number is puled out of ... not sure where... Favors eFG % on jumpers last season was 33%.

Lmfao you actually believe your own bull shit so much that you'll go as far as putting up a dunk highlight reel and claim it as difinitive proof.

Go pay your membership and get back to us mmmmkay. Favors homerism is almost as amusing as your old START CJMILES stuff.

aliveandkickin wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXJ5it7_O3A&list=PLF1EA54F59605CC57

Vid on the Pick-and-roll. Note the coach says (at 3:20) if the player is a back-to-the-basket player without an outside shot that sets the pick (like Favors) then the picker will slip to the basket. If the picker is a "skill four" (like Kanter) then the picker will fade.

Ideally you want the picker to be able to fade or slip to the basket (Like Malone, preaching to the choir I know). I'd go with Kanter at this point in their careers as the picker since he can hit the outside jumper if he needs to fade.

Excellent point about looking at Kanter's game and Favors' game. Both Kanter and Favors have tremendous defensive potential. I like both these players for that alone. What Kanter already has is a decent understanding of our offensive schemes. Favors hasn't yet found his niche in planned offensive plays. He is, however, an offensive intangible asset (meaning he has offensive potential, but, hasn't fit in to a coachable mold where we can plan when and where it is best to use him in our offense). Both players have tremendous potential, but, I think we need to work Favors into a player we can rely on, rather than a hit or miss game-bomb.

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Lmfao you actually believe your own bull shit so much that you'll go as far as putting up a dunk highlight reel and claim it as difinitive proof.

Go pay your membership and get back to us mmmmkay. Favors homerism is almost as amusing as your old START CJMILES stuff.

Did you actually watched it? 29 pick and roll plays, some dunks, some layups some resulted in free throws. 4 times only finisher bounce the ball once before finishing the play - proving that good dribbling is barely needed to run it efficiently . Show me better example which will prove your point. Actually don't bother as you will not find one.
And anybody here can confirm that I am last person on earth when it comes to homerism about Jazz players. Favors is no saint. He is far far from being franchise type player and has numerous weaknesses. But what he does well is running and finishing pick and roll. And you sir, are not going to prove it otherwise.
How about your false claim about his 27% jumper shooting which I proved to be 33%. Will you be a man and admit that you were wrong about it as well? Come on, I will let you at least save some reputation here.

back to favors. I saw magnus post 36 minutes. I cant see that simply because he will get in too much foul trouble. He was 7th in the league in foul rate. Thi is why we need a quality 3rd big. Not only to teach favors and kanter, but because favors will get in foul trouble a lot.

I think his numbers post kanter are about what he will post. id say 31-32 minutes 15 points 10 boards 2 blocks 1 steal.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Did you actually watched it? 29 pick and roll plays, some dunks, some layups some resulted in free throws.

I actually watched that highlight dunk reel four days before you put it up. It's irrelevant. We already agreed that finishing without dribbling is optimal. You, however, ignored my game film analysis of why Favors needs to learn to dribble a bit. In addition to that, it will add a potential spin move as well as pick-pop ball fake drives.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

4 times only finisher bounce the ball once before finishing the play - proving that good dribbling is barely needed to run it efficiently . Show me better example which will prove your point. Actually don't bother as you will not find one.

Is Karl Malone's instructions good enough for you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US-h15qVBCc

Most Malone highlights are going to be his power dunks. I'd recommend game film instead. You can find complete playoff games on youtube.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

How about your false claim about his 27% jumper shooting which I proved to be 33%. Will you be a man and admit that you were wrong about it as well? Come on, I will let you at least save some reputation here.

Definitely not. I'm clearly married to that number since I said 27% or something. And when you change it to eFg, well that just makes me look ridiculous now doesn't it. NOPE. It's now 27% set in stone no changies no take backs.

Good job detective.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Did you actually watched it? 29 pick and roll plays, some dunks, some layups some resulted in free throws. 4 times only finisher bounce the ball once before finishing the play - proving that good dribbling is barely needed to run it efficiently . Show me better example which will prove your point. Actually don't bother as you will not find one.
And anybody here can confirm that I am last person on earth when it comes to homerism about Jazz players. Favors is no saint. He is far far from being franchise type player and has numerous weaknesses. But what he does well is running and finishing pick and roll. And you sir, are not going to prove it otherwise.
How about your false claim about his 27% jumper shooting which I proved to be 33%. Will you be a man and admit that you were wrong about it as well? Come on, I will let you at least save some reputation here.

I can attest to that.

Professo_Sloan wrote:

We already agreed that finishing without dribbling is optimal. You, however, ignored my game film analysis of why Favors needs to learn to dribble a bit. In addition to that, it will add a potential spin move as well as pick-pop ball fake drives.

So if he learns to dribble a bit he will not be bad, bad pick and roll player? Even if it only helps in about 13% of pick and roll finishes? Come on, just admit you are wrong. Dribbling, spin move, pick/pop ball fake, anything else is great to have in repertoire for any basketball player - but it is not most important part of pick and roll!
Which is my point about Favors - he is the best Jazz have at pick and roll as of today. You sir, ignored my question when I asked you who do you think is better then Favors ( if he is bad, bad according to you) on the Jazz team when it comes to pick and roll. Not dribbling, not spin moves or post up, not outside shooting. Just pick and roll in general. I am awaiting your answer.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Professo_Sloan wrote:

We already agreed that finishing without dribbling is optimal. You, however, ignored my game film analysis of why Favors needs to learn to dribble a bit. In addition to that, it will add a potential spin move as well as pick-pop ball fake drives.

So if he learns to dribble a bit he will not be bad, bad pick and roll player? Even if it only helps in about 13% of pick and roll finishes? Come on, just admit you are wrong. Dribbling, spin move, pick/pop ball fake, anything else is great to have in repertoire for any basketball player - but it is not most important part of pick and roll!
Which is my point about Favors - he is the best Jazz have at pick and roll as of today. You sir, ignored my question when I asked you who do you think is better then Favors ( if he is bad, bad according to you) on the Jazz team when it comes to pick and roll. Not dribbling, not spin moves or post up, not outside shooting. Just pick and roll in general. I am awaiting your answer.

Calg is completely owning this conversation, Prof. I think it's time for the white flag.

Who knew there would come this time when I would say that Calg is looking like the level-headed dude on this board. You are definitely born again hard, Calg!

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Who knew there would come this time when I would say that Calg is looking like the level-headed dude on this board. You are definitely born again hard, Calg!

Thanks, that's what grey hair does to a man I guess.

Favors can finish at the rim and that's about it. Outside j sucks, court awareness is limited on the move with the ball. Iow, rotating a player to cut Favors line to the hoop is all it takes to neutralize him...not that he can't be a good second pick-and-roll option.
Let Favors live underneath with putbacks and boards on offense until hes a complete player. Hopefully the Jazz get a good point to run the p&r and they resign Millsap to run it along with Kanter the majority of the time.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Professo_Sloan wrote:

We already agreed that finishing without dribbling is optimal. You, however, ignored my game film analysis of why Favors needs to learn to dribble a bit. In addition to that, it will add a potential spin move as well as pick-pop ball fake drives.

So if he learns to dribble a bit he will not be bad, bad pick and roll player? Even if it only helps in about 13% of pick and roll finishes? Come on, just admit you are wrong. Dribbling, spin move, pick/pop ball fake, anything else is great to have in repertoire for any basketball player - but it is not most important part of pick and roll!
Which is my point about Favors - he is the best Jazz have at pick and roll as of today. You sir, ignored my question when I asked you who do you think is better then Favors ( if he is bad, bad according to you) on the Jazz team when it comes to pick and roll. Not dribbling, not spin moves or post up, not outside shooting. Just pick and roll in general. I am awaiting your answer.

I already gave you stats showing Jefferson is way better. Do you really have this big of an issue concentrating, or just playing ignorant?

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Professo_Sloan wrote:

We already agreed that finishing without dribbling is optimal. You, however, ignored my game film analysis of why Favors needs to learn to dribble a bit. In addition to that, it will add a potential spin move as well as pick-pop ball fake drives.

So if he learns to dribble a bit he will not be bad, bad pick and roll player? Even if it only helps in about 13% of pick and roll finishes? Come on, just admit you are wrong. Dribbling, spin move, pick/pop ball fake, anything else is great to have in repertoire for any basketball player - but it is not most important part of pick and roll!
Which is my point about Favors - he is the best Jazz have at pick and roll as of today. You sir, ignored my question when I asked you who do you think is better then Favors ( if he is bad, bad according to you) on the Jazz team when it comes to pick and roll. Not dribbling, not spin moves or post up, not outside shooting. Just pick and roll in general. I am awaiting your answer.

Calg is completely owning this conversation, Prof. I think it's time for the white flag.

You make a good cheerleader. Want some Lakers colored pompoms?

Professo_Sloan wrote:

I already gave you stats showing Jefferson is way better. Do you really have this big of an issue concentrating, or just playing ignorant?

You just posted big Al's numbers, not that he is way better. So what is Favors number to compare?? If he would be good pick and roll player he would played much better with DWill. But yet he had problems like a rookie in high school to figure how to run it with one of the best PG in NBA. It was sad to watch how uncomfortable he was rolling to the basket after setting the pick - you could tell even he knew he was doing it wrong. If he would be better then Jazz would run more pick and rolls with Jefferson, yet we almost never see it...
According to Synergy Sports Technology, 49.1% of Jefferson's offense this season has been from post-ups, with no other play type getting more than two possessions per game. It is safe to assume that there were games when big Al was not involved in any pick and roll attempts at all - first of all because he can't run it well, second - because he is way more effective posting up in the left low block, thus any smart coach would call those plays for him first. That's where he is one of the best in NBA - but not at pick and roll.

Here is what couple other people said about Big Al and his pick and roll game.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/1/26/1957029/whats-wrong-with-utah-it-might-be-big-al

Jefferson's game doesn't really utilize Deron's strength as a creator and assist man. The way Jefferson plays offense, it wouldn't really matter if Deron or CJ Watson was his point guard. Jefferson doesn't really complement Deron at all in a lot of ways.
That's a real big problem when you don't fit well with the team's franchise point guard. Asking Big Al to run the pick and roll with Williams is like asking Drew Bledsoe to run the option. It just doesn't fit.

Some dude covering Spurs thinks there is some hope in Big Al`s pick and roll game - means he is not at this point!

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/2/7/3962846/the-spurs-will-never-trade-for-al-jefferson

It's possible that Jefferson could become a good pick and roll player on offense and an average one on defense. He could give the Spurs another offensive weapon with his excellent post offense.

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Here is what couple other people said about Big Al and his pick and roll game.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/1/26/1957029/whats-wrong-with-utah-it-might-be-big-al

Jefferson's game doesn't really utilize Deron's strength as a creator and assist man. The way Jefferson plays offense, it wouldn't really matter if Deron or CJ Watson was his point guard. Jefferson doesn't really complement Deron at all in a lot of ways.
That's a real big problem when you don't fit well with the team's franchise point guard. Asking Big Al to run the pick and roll with Williams is like asking Drew Bledsoe to run the option. It just doesn't fit.

Some dude covering Spurs thinks there is some hope in Big Al`s pick and roll game - means he is not at this point!

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/2/7/3962846/the-spurs-will-never-trade-for-al-jefferson

It's possible that Jefferson could become a good pick and roll player on offense and an average one on defense. He could give the Spurs another offensive weapon with his excellent post offense.

A Drew Bledsoe sighting (that's a first on this board for sure)? Wow! +1 for the obscure, but very accurate reference.