Foye a starter?

Former Jazz assistant, Gordon Chiesa went on the radio and said, he thinks Foye should start. I dont think it is that crazy of an idea either.

Foye should get about 20-24 minutes. We want to maximize those minutes. Foye was significantly better last year as a starter. Maybe, it takes him a while to get into the rhythm of the game coming off the bench. For some players, that is tough. That is a skill you have or dont have. No way to really develop that. (On a side note, it will be interesting to see how Ray Allen does coming off the bench.)

He is tough, and can play some defense, but his strength is shooting. Off the bench last year, he shot 36% from the field. Not, 3 point land, but the field. 28% from downtown off the bench. As a starter, he shot 40% from the field and 3 point land as a starter. Shot 10% better from the FT line also as a starter. Now, maybe some of this has to do with playing with CP3 as the PG, as opposed to Mo Williams. (Nothing against Mo Williams.)

This probably means Marvin Williams comes off the bench. Can Marvin be a 6th man? Would Marvin be a good leader, since he would probably lead the 2nd unit. Now, Marvin still gets 30 minutes, but it is off the bench. Jason Terry played 32 minutes last year. This is how Marvin Williams is used. Finishes the game.

I'm worried about Foye off the bench. He might not be as much of an upgrade as we think he is.

Call me crazy but I think DC is going to compete for the starting 3 if Hayward starts at the 2, which I could see happening. I think training camp will sort out who fits best with who in the starting unit. It would suck, though, to have Marvin put up mediocre numbers coming off the bench for $8MM a year. Hopefully he earns a start "forcing" GH to the 2.

MTJazz wrote:

Call me crazy but I think DC is going to compete for the starting 3 if Hayward starts at the 2, which I could see happening. I think training camp will sort out who fits best with who in the starting unit. It would suck, though, to have Marvin put up mediocre numbers coming off the bench for $8MM a year. Hopefully he earns a start "forcing" GH to the 2.

If Paul starts, then yes I agree he could. But if Favors starts, I think Marv starts at the 3 with GH at the 2. We would want Marv's offense. And GH plays best at the 2.

I am pretty sure that Burks will be in the fight for the starting 2 guard position and would not be shocked to see him win the job out right, the Kid really put on a show in the summer league games. If Foye is able to win the job I would be OK with that but he is going to have a battle I am sure of it to win the starting SG spot. I also don't see Mar Williams winning the starting SF job over Hayward but again if he is able to do it then he would deserve to be the starter. I think Favors will be a starter I really do the Kid showed up big at the end of last season and I think the Jazz are a better team when he is on the floor on the defensive side no question about it.

MTJazz wrote:

Call me crazy but I think DC is going to compete for the starting 3 if Hayward starts at the 2, which I could see happening. I think training camp will sort out who fits best with who in the starting unit. It would suck, though, to have Marvin put up mediocre numbers coming off the bench for $8MM a year. Hopefully he earns a start "forcing" GH to the 2.

Crazy

If roster stands pat:

- Mo Williams, Gordon Hayward, Big Al will start
- The starting PF spot is Favor's to lose
- My starting five guess: Williams, Burks, Hayward, Favors, Jefferson
- Second lineup Tinsley, Foye, Williams, Millsap, Kanter
- Third stringers Watson, Murphy, Carroll, Evans
- The other guy: Bell

You heard it first here

PS: If I were Jazz brass Bell and Watson wouldn't be in SLC by tipoff time....

I have hopes for Randy to be strong contributer, but if Foye is the teams best SG & "earns" the starting spot, then the team is weak at that spot & hasn't got any better. For the team to move forward, Burks need to be the best pure SG on the team IMO. Heyward could still start there if Marv is the SF, but Burks has to be the better of he & Randy or the team hasn't made the progression I am hoping for at that spot.

Randy Foye = starter = problem

Foye is what he is, a good player, but not nothing more. His prime is here & he's probably not going to get better. Burks on the other hand has tons of room for growth, and that's what I'm looking for.


I feel like I rambled & said the same thing over & over ..... but I'm still sending this damn post.

I'm agreeing with you alot lately Zero. I think the luxury of Foye was that we didn't actually NEED him, so much as sure, great, we'll take him!

I still think Burks is going to be our Harden 6th man. Which actually, IMO will make him a 5 1/2 man, with Paul as the other 5 1/2 man. Paul starter minutes, Burks close to it.
So hard to tell though, now with Paul gone this summer, maybe Utah needs to showcase him as a starter so they can trade him during the season and get something for him. Hmmmm, tough.

I still say starters after Marv looks good in training camp, as does Gordo and Fav are going to be:
MO/GH/Marv/Fav/Al. With a killer second unit of Foye as a semi-PG, Burks, DC, Paul, Kanter. Yea buddy!

zero24gravity wrote:

I have hopes for Randy to be strong contributer, but if Foye is the teams best SG & "earns" the starting spot, then the team is weak at that spot & hasn't got any better. For the team to move forward, Burks need to be the best pure SG on the team IMO. Heyward could still start there if Marv is the SF, but Burks has to be the better of he & Randy or the team hasn't made the progression I am hoping for at that spot.

Randy Foye = starter = problem

Foye is what he is, a good player, but not nothing more. His prime is here & he's probably not going to get better. Burks on the other hand has tons of room for growth, and that's what I'm looking for.


I feel like I rambled & said the same thing over & over ..... but I'm still sending this damn post.

Foye is a better player than what some people are thinking he is I think anyway in the last few seasons the guy has turned things around and has taken his game up a few notches and turned himself into a legit NBA guard that can play both the PG/SG positions. But when it is all said and done I think Burks will win the starting SG job this coming season it is pretty clear he has put in the work this summer and has taken his game to the next level that will earn him the job.

dongibby wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

I have hopes for Randy to be strong contributer, but if Foye is the teams best SG & "earns" the starting spot, then the team is weak at that spot & hasn't got any better. For the team to move forward, Burks need to be the best pure SG on the team IMO. Heyward could still start there if Marv is the SF, but Burks has to be the better of he & Randy or the team hasn't made the progression I am hoping for at that spot.

Randy Foye = starter = problem

Foye is what he is, a good player, but not nothing more. His prime is here & he's probably not going to get better. Burks on the other hand has tons of room for growth, and that's what I'm looking for.


I feel like I rambled & said the same thing over & over ..... but I'm still sending this damn post.

Foye is a better player than what some people are thinking he is I think anyway in the last few seasons the guy has turned things around and has taken his game up a few notches and turned himself into a legit NBA guard that can play both the PG/SG positions. But when it is all said and done I think Burks will win the starting SG job this coming season it is pretty clear he has put in the work this summer and has taken his game to the next level that will earn him the job.

Right, I think Foye is a good player as well. He's a boarderline starter/good sixth or seventh player. But that's not what I want for the Jazz. I want a quality starter that isn't viewed as a weak-point in the line-up.

Mutangclan wrote:

I'm agreeing with you alot lately Zero.

That's the smartest thing I've heard all day!

zero24gravity wrote:

I have hopes for Randy to be strong contributer, but if Foye is the teams best SG & "earns" the starting spot, then the team is weak at that spot & hasn't got any better. For the team to move forward, Burks need to be the best pure SG on the team IMO.

Well, I gotta ask then, what makes you think Burks deserves a starting spot and who says Foye isn't an upgrade over last year's situation if he was a starter? The way I look at it the 2 spot improved significantly with Foye's add to the team, more options and talent. As for Burks, I say, "Go get it young man!", but the team hasn't gotten better if its handed to him based on "potential" versus performance. He hasn't proved he can hit an outside shot with any regularity yet, (much less play point like Foye), so in my mind he is only a small step ahead of Ronnie Brewer - gets to the basket well, can play some D and hustles but unless you can hit that jump shot guys will sag off into the paint to the detriment of the paint scoring options. I sincerely hope he comes back this season with a potent jumper, but until proven otherwise, ( and I hope he proves otherwise), he is so far a very nice work in progress. No onne here thought the Jazz had suddenly 'solved' the 2 spot starter situation with the Foye pickup but we were all generally psyched about Foye's price tag to talent ratio compared to the previous incarnation options we had in the back court. I think with the double punch of Foye/Burks at the 2 Gordo can make a very nice home at the 3 with Marvin. That's the picture I like!

This is what I was afraid of all along, Randy Foye will not lead a team to the next level. He might be a good guy off the bench or an insurance policy but if he takes minutes away from Burks or Hayward that would be bad.
My prediction is by the All-star break Burks will be the story of season up until then.

rorybreaker wrote:

This is what I was afraid of all along, Randy Foye will not lead a team to the next level. He might be a good guy off the bench or an insurance policy but if he takes minutes away from Burks or Hayward that would be bad.
My prediction is by the All-star break Burks will be the story of season up until then.

Hope you are right about Burks being the big story but honestly lets not put too much expectation on him right now. He showed good game as a rookie but do you really think he is that good he will start for a playoff team as a sophomore? It took Dwill until his third season for a point of reference. Foye is more than insurance, he can probably out compete Burks for the startin slot. Does that mean Burks won't get big minutes? NO! The Jazz love him for his potential and if he can prove by play he deserves more time or a start he can claim his big boy pants, but until then he is a 7th man at best. I think Kanter has every bit the potential to be a quality NBA player that Burks has but neither are ready to come out and anchor the starting unit in their sophomore year on a competitive playoff team. They both look like they can be the real deal, we need game time to get a better read; it could be break out years for both...or, maybe next year. They are both great young talents and no one is going to give up on them early.

MTJazz wrote:

Well, I gotta ask then, what makes you think Burks deserves a starting spot and who says Foye isn't an upgrade over last year's situation if he was a starter? The way I look at it the 2 spot improved significantly with Foye's add to the team, more options and talent. As for Burks, I say, "Go get it young man!", but the team hasn't gotten better if its handed to him based on "potential" versus performance. He hasn't proved he can hit an outside shot with any regularity yet, (much less play point like Foye), so in my mind he is only a small step ahead of Ronnie Brewer - gets to the basket well, can play some D and hustles but unless you can hit that jump shot guys will sag off into the paint to the detriment of the paint scoring options. I sincerely hope he comes back this season with a potent jumper, but until proven otherwise, ( and I hope he proves otherwise), he is so far a very nice work in progress. No onne here thought the Jazz had suddenly 'solved' the 2 spot starter situation with the Foye pickup but we were all generally psyched about Foye's price tag to talent ratio compared to the previous incarnation options we had in the back court. I think with the double punch of Foye/Burks at the 2 Gordo can make a very nice home at the 3 with Marvin. That's the picture I like!

I posted it somewhere else a while back, but Burks percentages on mid-range, pull-ups and I think even 3pt shooting was actually very high. For some reason he is looked at as not a very good outside shooter, but the numbers said thats not the case.

I think I may be leaning more toward Rawns I think it was now, with a second unit featuring Foye playing a decent amount of 1 and Burks at the two so a potent scoring backcourt ala Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars.
Also still think no matter with Paul or Marv at the 3, Gordo is going to be our starting 2 guard this year. Not Burks, Foye or anyone else.

Mutangclan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Well, I gotta ask then, what makes you think Burks deserves a starting spot and who says Foye isn't an upgrade over last year's situation if he was a starter? The way I look at it the 2 spot improved significantly with Foye's add to the team, more options and talent. As for Burks, I say, "Go get it young man!", but the team hasn't gotten better if its handed to him based on "potential" versus performance. He hasn't proved he can hit an outside shot with any regularity yet, (much less play point like Foye), so in my mind he is only a small step ahead of Ronnie Brewer - gets to the basket well, can play some D and hustles but unless you can hit that jump shot guys will sag off into the paint to the detriment of the paint scoring options. I sincerely hope he comes back this season with a potent jumper, but until proven otherwise, ( and I hope he proves otherwise), he is so far a very nice work in progress. No onne here thought the Jazz had suddenly 'solved' the 2 spot starter situation with the Foye pickup but we were all generally psyched about Foye's price tag to talent ratio compared to the previous incarnation options we had in the back court. I think with the double punch of Foye/Burks at the 2 Gordo can make a very nice home at the 3 with Marvin. That's the picture I like!

Also still think no matter with Paul or Marv at the 3, Gordo is going to be our starting 2 guard this year. Not Burks, Foye or anyone else.

Bet you he won't be. He's the Jazz best natural 3, and having Marv and DC off the bench there to back him up, plus his ability to slip over to the 2 with the second unit, makes him a lock at the 3 start. Burks and Foye will go at it for the start at the 2 with Corbin knowing he can easily move GH over if and when needed.

MTJazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Also still think no matter with Paul or Marv at the 3, Gordo is going to be our starting 2 guard this year. Not Burks, Foye or anyone else.

Bet you he won't be. He's the Jazz best natural 3, and having Marv and DC off the bench there to back him up, plus his ability to slip over to the 2 with the second unit, makes him a lock at the 3 start. Burks and Foye will go at it for the start at the 2 with Corbin knowing he can easily move GH over if and when needed.

I'll take that bet, and loser has to LEAVE THIS FORUM FOREVER!!!!!

jk. I feel like Calgary may have said that once.....

I will take that bet though. I think that Gordon is actually Utah's best natural 2 guard. Defensively he struggles with alot of small forwards. But as a 2, he dominates other 2's defensively and offensively does extremely well.
Also, I think Marvin Williams is finally, FINALLY on a team that his abilities are best suited for. I think he might very well have a career year. I'm hoping he starts, mainly because I think it's the best starting unit with Fav and Al, but also because I think with Marv he's the one guy that could use that "starting" mental boost.
This is the best part about this offseason now, there are so many combo's! I think actually that Burks will be an ideal scoring punch Harden sixth man. Foye is going to play 2 and 1, and I'm thinking now next to Burks.

Mutangclan wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Also still think no matter with Paul or Marv at the 3, Gordo is going to be our starting 2 guard this year. Not Burks, Foye or anyone else.

Bet you he won't be. He's the Jazz best natural 3, and having Marv and DC off the bench there to back him up, plus his ability to slip over to the 2 with the second unit, makes him a lock at the 3 start. Burks and Foye will go at it for the start at the 2 with Corbin knowing he can easily move GH over if and when needed.

I'll take that bet, and loser has to LEAVE THIS FORUM FOREVER!!!!!

jk. I feel like Calgary may have be that once.....

I will take that bet though. I think that Gordon is actually Utah's best natural 2 guard. Defensively he struggles with alot of small forwards. But as a 2, he dominates other 2's defensively and offensively does extremely well.
Also, I think Marvin Williams is finally, FINALLY on a team that his abilities are best suited for. I think he might very well have a career year. I'm hoping he starts, mainly because I think it's the best starting unit with Fav and Al, but also because I think with Marv he's the one guy that could use that "starting" mental boost.
This is the best part about this offseason now, there are so many combo's! I think actually that Burks will be an ideal scoring punch Harden sixth man. Foye is going to play 2 and 1, and I'm thinking now next to Burks.

I appreciate your position and see the logic (hope). I'll take that bet. I took Romo on an as yet unpaid wager on Jazz making the playoffs this past year for a fine bottle of scotch but this is a way smaller wager. How about I ban myself for a week if GH starts the season as the 2?

MTJazz wrote:

I appreciate your position and see the logic (hope). I'll take that bet. I took Romo on an as yet unpaid wager on Jazz making the playoffs this past year for a fine bottle of scotch but this is a way smaller wager. How about I ban myself for a week if GH starts the season as the 2?

No way buddy! No banning for you, need more MT not less! We can make a friendly wager, I'm always up for that and plenty of time to figure out for what. Start thinking.

Doesn't make sense having Hayward backing up Foye. Hayward will be resigned by the Jazz and Foye may or may not be in the Jazz's future plans.

Having Foye backup Mo is ideal. Watson, thanks for the memories.
Having Burks backup GH is the plan in my mind.

BTW, Millsap is the sf, starting sf!!!

Starters:
Mo
Hayward
Sap
Favors
BIG AL

Backups
Foye
Burks
Williams
Kanter

the rest of the guys can get scrub time. Hopefully the starters get tons and tons and tons of minutes together.

MTJazz wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

I have hopes for Randy to be strong contributer, but if Foye is the teams best SG & "earns" the starting spot, then the team is weak at that spot & hasn't got any better. For the team to move forward, Burks need to be the best pure SG on the team IMO.

Well, I gotta ask then, what makes you think Burks deserves a starting spot and who says Foye isn't an upgrade over last year's situation if he was a starter? The way I look at it the 2 spot improved significantly with Foye's add to the team, more options and talent. As for Burks, I say, "Go get it young man!", but the team hasn't gotten better if its handed to him based on "potential" versus performance. He hasn't proved he can hit an outside shot with any regularity yet, (much less play point like Foye), so in my mind he is only a small step ahead of Ronnie Brewer - gets to the basket well, can play some D and hustles but unless you can hit that jump shot guys will sag off into the paint to the detriment of the paint scoring options. I sincerely hope he comes back this season with a potent jumper, but until proven otherwise, ( and I hope he proves otherwise), he is so far a very nice work in progress. No onne here thought the Jazz had suddenly 'solved' the 2 spot starter situation with the Foye pickup but we were all generally psyched about Foye's price tag to talent ratio compared to the previous incarnation options we had in the back court. I think with the double punch of Foye/Burks at the 2 Gordo can make a very nice home at the 3 with Marvin. That's the picture I like!

One big reason that makes me think that Burks will get the start over the others is O'Conner has came out and said that Burks and Hayward will be the starters at the SG and SF this coming season, if that is going to change then the others are going to have to work harder than Burks to get it and I just don't see that happening.

dongibby wrote:

One big reason that makes me think that Burks will get the start over the others is O'Conner has came out and said that Burks and Hayward will be the starters at the SG and SF this coming season, if that is going to change then the others are going to have to work harder than Burks to get it and I just don't see that happening.

First, I'm starting to change my views, and liking Foye more and more as the second units PG. Instead of punishing teams with a defensive second unit like we used to, now we'll have a balls-out running scoring a ton of points second unit with Foye/Burks/Paul(IMO:) or Marv with Kanter getting all the offensive rebounds and putbacks etc. Kind of loving that.....

Don, when did KOC say Burks/GH were our starters? I dont remember him coming out with that. Can you find it?

Mutangclan wrote:

dongibby wrote:

One big reason that makes me think that Burks will get the start over the others is O'Conner has came out and said that Burks and Hayward will be the starters at the SG and SF this coming season, if that is going to change then the others are going to have to work harder than Burks to get it and I just don't see that happening.

First, I'm starting to change my views, and liking Foye more and more as the second units PG. Instead of punishing teams with a defensive second unit like we used to, now we'll have a balls-out running scoring a ton of points second unit with Foye/Burks/Paul(IMO:) or Marv with Kanter getting all the offensive rebounds and putbacks etc. Kind of loving that.....

Don, when did KOC say Burks/GH were our starters? I dont remember him coming out with that. Can you find it?

He was on one of the sports talk radio station in Utah doing an interview when he said it that's where I heard it. I think there was some others that heard that same interview maybe they can't speak up but that is what he was saying that Hayward will be the starting SF and Burks the starting SG.

dongibby wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

dongibby wrote:

One big reason that makes me think that Burks will get the start over the others is O'Conner has came out and said that Burks and Hayward will be the starters at the SG and SF this coming season, if that is going to change then the others are going to have to work harder than Burks to get it and I just don't see that happening.

First, I'm starting to change my views, and liking Foye more and more as the second units PG. Instead of punishing teams with a defensive second unit like we used to, now we'll have a balls-out running scoring a ton of points second unit with Foye/Burks/Paul(IMO:) or Marv with Kanter getting all the offensive rebounds and putbacks etc. Kind of loving that.....

Don, when did KOC say Burks/GH were our starters? I dont remember him coming out with that. Can you find it?

He was on one of the sports talk radio station in Utah doing an interview when he said it that's where I heard it. I think there was some others that heard that same interview maybe they can't speak up but that is what he was saying that Hayward will be the starting SF and Burks the starting SG.

I remember hearing that as well. Not sure that KOC makes those decisions though.

Not saying you didn't hear that but its pretty darn unusual for KOC to say such things especially in an off season before the next season roster is finalized. Especially in the case of Burks who didn't earn a starting role last season. Geez, make the kid work for it!