Off-season roster improvements

Mutangclan wrote:

Another off-season improvement: Josh Smith.

I know, he's been talked about before, but man I just feel like he would be the young, monster pick up we need. Atlanta can't afford to keep all of their big 3, Johnson/Smith/Horford. Smith has been talked about forever as the one to go. They love Horford there, nobody is going to take Joe Johnsons contract on. So that leaves Smith. With Horford being forced to play Center all these years, even though he's been a PF, Atlanta needs a Center.
Man....... Al Jeff for Josh Smith.....Atlanta gets their Center, gets Josh Smith out of there since they've been trying for years. We have a Starting 5 of Derrick at the 5, Paul at the 4, Josh at the 3 (his more natural position) Gordo at the 2(his best position) and Devin or whomever at the 1. Oi vey....that would be sick.

2nd choice would be to make a play for Ryan Anderson, who is a FA and big time 3pt shooter extraordinaire. Space the floor, good hustle player....yum.
3rd choice, make a play for Steve Novak.
This team needs 3pt shooting.

Smith would be an amazing pickup for us. Either way we have to do something with Al. I know I have kinda flip flopped on the Al thing, but watching this series. He is so much of a defensive liability. When your center can't rotate and protect the rim it breaks down everything you are trying to do on defense. The mid to lower level teams won't really be able to take advantage of that, but the teams you face in the playoffs will do it all day long.

So I hate to say it, but yeah send him to the hawks and bring in Smith. Then Favors can start Paul can stay at PF and we still have Kanter to back up Favors. Make it happen KOC!

RookieJazz wrote:

My friend, the question is not who is the best coach. The question is: Who will give the youngs big minutes?

A: Ty Corbin

Not sure who you think Nate McMillan is, but one of the main criticizms of him from Blazer fans and media was that he was too inflexible in his system and didn't do enough to develop the Blazers young talent, even when he was basicly forced by injuries to use them.

I thought Ty showed a lot of flexibility this year during the season, and gave the young guys some really quality minutes even when he had veterans ready to play.

I like McMillan, and I think he's a great coach, but I think Ty as a 1.5th year coach showed some real solid potential adn ability just like our young players, and just like it is with the players, I think we should stick with Ty.

Romoholic wrote:

Smith would be an amazing pickup for us. Either way we have to do something with Al. I know I have kinda flip flopped on the Al thing, but watching this series. He is so much of a defensive liability. When your center can't rotate and protect the rim it breaks down everything you are trying to do on defense. The mid to lower level teams won't really be able to take advantage of that, but the teams you face in the playoffs will do it all day long.

So I hate to say it, but yeah send him to the hawks and bring in Smith. Then Favors can start Paul can stay at PF and we still have Kanter to back up Favors. Make it happen KOC!

I like the Smith idea, mostly because it would free up that starting center spot for Favors & create an even more athletic & shot blocking team than the Jazz already have.

Thing is, that wouldn't solve the outside shooting issues the Jazz have because Josh is not a shooter, or the PG problem.

I'd also like to bring AK back, who is very similar to the skills that Smith brings, and then move Jefferson for a shooter &/or a PG. ....... but I wouldn't argue with the Smith trade as long as he's willing to play here.

I would love to have Nate McMillan as Coach, but I think once you hire a guy you should give him a little more chance than Corbin has had. He still hasn't had a chance to coach a normal season with a pre-season camp and regular practices during the season, and, just making the playoffs was an accomplishment. That being said, I am still mad about that quadruple overtime game where he played the starters to exhaustion and left Favors and Burks on the bench. JMO.

zero24gravity wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Smith would be an amazing pickup for us. Either way we have to do something with Al. I know I have kinda flip flopped on the Al thing, but watching this series. He is so much of a defensive liability. When your center can't rotate and protect the rim it breaks down everything you are trying to do on defense. The mid to lower level teams won't really be able to take advantage of that, but the teams you face in the playoffs will do it all day long.

So I hate to say it, but yeah send him to the hawks and bring in Smith. Then Favors can start Paul can stay at PF and we still have Kanter to back up Favors. Make it happen KOC!

I like the Smith idea, mostly because it would free up that starting center spot for Favors & create an even more athletic & shot blocking team than the Jazz already have.

Thing is, that wouldn't solve the outside shooting issues the Jazz have because Josh is not a shooter, or the PG problem.

I'd also like to bring AK back, who is very similar to the skills that Smith brings, and then move Jefferson for a shooter &/or a PG. ....... but I wouldn't argue with the Smith trade as long as he's willing to play here.

What are the chances KOC can lose Raja Bell, CJ Miles, Josh Howard, and one of the 3 PGs(prob Devin by trade) by either amnesty or just not reupping-----then in turn go after either Steve Novak or god willing Ryan Anderson, which would effectively solve the outside shooting. In particular, I can't imagine Steve Novak making much more than CJ Miles did this year. 5 year/20m for Novak??? Ryan Anderson will be sought after, but Jazz should have some money to play with. Then Al Jefferson goes to Atlanta for Josh Smith????? I mean....you know, is that reasonable??? Oh, and lets just say somebody moves up in the draft (fairly likely actually) and we get that GS pick. This is all do-able, no?????!!!!!!!
So I never do this, but since I have a few minutes, and I'm feeling dreamy......

Starting 5-
PG- Damian Lillard
SG- Gordon Hayward
SF- Josh Smith
PF- Paul Millsap
C- Derrick Favors

Bench: Novak (Anderson), Tinsley/Watson, Burks, Kanter, Evans, 2nd round pick.

I meannnnnnnnnnn, scoring, outside shooting, defense, rebounding, bench play..... is it all possible?????!!!!!

Jazz are at about 50 million heading into the offseason.

Here is a draft day trade. Bell (negative trade value) + GS pick for Reddick. That depends on the drawing. If GS gets jumped, that is probably too much to give for Reddick. Future pick seems like the right price.

I then go hard after Andre Miller. Gives them a great backup. I like Watson, but I think the backup PG spot is something that can be improved upon.

Howard, Miles and Ahearn are gone. Carroll comes back. Pick up the TO on Tinsley. Someone will trade a future 2nd round pick for him I would think, as a roster filler, or trade him for a vet that is close to being done, if you sign a PG.

Evans is tough. Im on the fence about him.

In terms of jefferson/millsap, it comes down to whoever I can get more for. Getting a wing would be huge. Here is the team heading into next year.

Harris/miller/watson
???? (this is where jefferson or millsap come into play)/Burks
hayward/Reddick (SG and SF is interchangable in utah's system)/Carroll
Favors starts, and again it comes down to who you trade. Kanter backs up C.

I'm against getting Josh Smith. He's not an offensive threat outside the paint and he's being paid 13.2Million. We can get Brandon Rush for much less and he can spread the floor leaving us cap room for an upgrade at PG. I don't know what Al's trade value but he is a commodity and teams will love to have him similar to boozer. The Jazz can do better than Josh Smith.

I was foolin around on NBA trade machine and I came up with this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8xpnsyh

Jazz trade: Harris and Jefferson to New Orleans
Jazz receive: Kevin Martin and Jarret Jack

New Orleans trade: Omeka Okafor and Xavier Henry to Houston
New Orleans receive: Harris and Jefferson

Houston trade: Martin to Utah
Houston receive: Omeka Okafor and Xavier Henry

Trading Jefferson will open up playing time for Kanter and Favors. We'll get a inexpensive backup center (Fes?) just in case they get injured.
Jarret Jack is a better shooter and passer than Harris. I don't know about his defense though. Both are the same age and build but Jack costs $5M compare to Harris' $8M. With the extra cap room, Utah can sign Brandon Rush.

Imagine this lineup:
PG Jack, Watson/Tinsley
SG Martin, Burks
SF Hayward, Rush
PF Millsap, Evans
C Favors, Kanter, Fesenko

I can expect Martin to get injured frequently throughout the season so Burks, Hayward, and Rush will get lots of time. The starting lineup has a lot of offensive firepower and decent defense while the bench is pretty solid. I didn't include draft picks because it's too difficult.

Would this trade work? Or we can resume the status quo and wait for 2013 free agency.

I haven't read the Nash thread yet (will in a minute) but these are my thoughts:

Sign Nash for three years.
Trade Jefferson 14 mil, Bell 3.2 mill, for
Hedo 10.6 mill and Ryan Anderson 2.2 mill

Hedo has two more years on his contract so he's amnestied if he can't bring it. Orlando will go for this in a heartbeat. They'll miss Anderson and his low contract for the next few yrs (he gets 3.2 in 2013/14) but they get rid of Hedos contract and they can't amnesty him because they just amnestied Arenas' huge over-blown contract.
We get rid of Bell and get a great (as Tang pointed out) outside threat to complement Favors and Milsap.

Here's the team:

Pg-- Nash, Harris, Watson
sg-- Hayward, Burks, Harris (Harris can play with Nash at times, oh yea)
Sf---Anderson, Hedo,
PF-- Millsap, Evans (resign Evans for two yrs)
C-- Favors, Kanter

That's 11 players so the Jazz would need to pickup 2 more players off free-agency or in the draft- not a biggie.

I like this team. It addresses the pick-and-roll with Nash, has outside shooting with Anderson, Nash, and Hayward, then, Harris can minimize Nash' minutes as well as play some sg if Corbin wants to play Hayward at sf.......... Still with me... Not to mention Burks- who'll just get better and better at sg.
Hedo is an enigma. He can take a ton of crappy shots but he can also drive and facilitate. You know damn well Corbin won't allow Hedo to play if he isn't playing team ball.
Anderson or Hedo can also play PF if Millsap or Favors get injured.

This team can play big or small, but more importantly, has a ton of players that can drive, shoot, and pass. I like it.
BTW, the trade works on the trade machine once Anderson is avilable on July 1st

I love the Jefferson for Smith idea, LOVE IT.

The more I watched the Jazz this post season, the more I was convinced that changes need to start with the PG though. Harris does alot of good stuff, but he's not a good fit for Corbin's system or this team.

I love Nash, and I think they should go after him, but I would also seriously consider trading for Calderon as a plan B. He's on the market, and I think he would be perfect for this team.

Plan C, or maybe B2, is to get Hayward with John Stockton this summer and turn him into a PG. I really think that is a natural position for him, as he naturally looks to create for others, is a great passer, and has a really solid handle. I was even more convinced that it would work when I saw what Philly is doing with Turner. I actually think a Burks Hayward backcourt could be the future of the Jazz if Hayward embraced the PG position.

TheMagnus wrote:

I love the Jefferson for Smith idea, LOVE IT.

The more I watched the Jazz this post season, the more I was convinced that changes need to start with the PG though. Harris does alot of good stuff, but he's not a good fit for Corbin's system or this team.

I love Nash, and I think they should go after him, but I would also seriously consider trading for Calderon as a plan B. He's on the market, and I think he would be perfect for this team.

Plan C, or maybe B2, is to get Hayward with John Stockton this summer and turn him into a PG. I really think that is a natural position for him, as he naturally looks to create for others, is a great passer, and has a really solid handle. I was even more convinced that it would work when I saw what Philly is doing with Turner. I actually think a Burks Hayward backcourt could be the future of the Jazz if Hayward embraced the PG position.

I watched some of Josh Smith in their series, one other thing that you never hear about it how good of a passing big man he is. I actually didn't know either.
Pretty much bottom line here, is that Atlanta needs a Center, and would like it to be a low post scorer. Utah needs a SF and defensive presence. Contracts are almost even too. Both teams have openly discussed making such a move. Josh would be awesome in Utah; AK with better scoring. And he's young, would fit right in and grow with this team.
Brandon Rush I'm not nearly as excited about. 3 teams, more have gotten rid of him? He only shows up part time. I really couldn't go through aquiring someone like him again. I want a competitor with fire. Smith has that, Rush doesn't.

Interesting on Hayward as PG. Its been established he has great vision, constantly is looking to set up teammates first. Hmmmm, and having a big PG isn't bad. Burks could guard the opposing teams PG......hmmmm. Wonder if Hayward could transition to full-time PG? Definitely seems that could be a good move....

i[m]M.V.P. wrote:

I'm against getting Josh Smith. He's not an offensive threat outside the paint and he's being paid 13.2Million. We can get Brandon Rush for much less and he can spread the floor leaving us cap room for an upgrade at PG. I don't know what Al's trade value but he is a commodity and teams will love to have him similar to boozer. The Jazz can do better than Josh Smith.

PG Jack, Watson/Tinsley
SG Martin, Burks
SF Hayward, Rush
PF Millsap, Evans
C Favors, Kanter, Fesenko

I can expect Martin to get injured frequently throughout the season so Burks, Hayward, and Rush will get lots of time. The starting lineup has a lot of offensive firepower and decent defense while the bench is pretty solid. I didn't include draft picks because it's too difficult.

Would this trade work? Or we can resume the status quo and wait for 2013 free agency.

I dont see this as positive at all. Only positive would be part time outside shooting. Martin is always injured, Rush you can't depend on. Not to mention Martin will get abused by other 2's. And Jack, eh. Jack/Rush/Martin all seems like making moves just to make moves. This team needs a guy that can change a game. Martin/Rush/Jack aren't those guys. Martin actually scares me more than ever, because I can't remember the last time he was healthy. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have Rush, I would. But he's not a starter in this league, never has been. We need a starter.

Mutangclan wrote:

Pretty much bottom line here, is that Atlanta needs a Center

Are they unhappy with Al Horford? I think last game was his first game back from being out a long time with an injury.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Pretty much bottom line here, is that Atlanta needs a Center

Are they unhappy with Al Horford? I think last game was his first game back from being out a long time with an injury.

Horford has been hurt all year with a bad injury. (Cant remember what it is.) He is only 6'9 though I think. He is a very undersized C.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Pretty much bottom line here, is that Atlanta needs a Center

Are they unhappy with Al Horford? I think last game was his first game back from being out a long time with an injury.

He's been uphappy forever playing out of position at C. Says he's a PF, and I certainly agree. He and Josh Smith have both been out of position.

By the way, and changing gears a bit, holy shit.....who does this guy think he is??????!!!! :


18m Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
Miles said he love Jazz, team's fans and thinks Corbin would evolve. But he never knew what was expected of him this year.
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19m Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
Miles said communication was much better with Jerry Sloan and Corbin has struggled relaying his message to team.

21m Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
C.J. Miles: "I don't even remember us naming a captain but they wanted leadership."

24m Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
C.J. Miles said there could've been better communication between Tyrone Corbin and him, as well as team.

CJ Miles goes off on Corbin?????!!! The most non-dependable player ever seen in a Jazz uni??? Shocking he thinks he can go off at the mouth like this...... BUT! Best part about it, is I think this secures his walking papers. Good riddance!!!

Oh, and Raja too: Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
Bell said he hopes Jazz do the right thing and move him. Was open to it before trade deadline but didn't ask for trade.
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31m Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
Raja Bell said Tyrone Corbin was "unprofessional" at end of season. Corbin made things personal and it was obvious.
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Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
Raja Bell does not expect to return to Jazz next year.
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If you want to keep up, looks like Raja and CJ both going off. Tough when other guys are better than you are...... http://twitter.com/#!/tribjazz

So there's two guys gone, who is going to replace them? First of some great moves I imagine.

You guys have to follow this twitter feed, CJ just wont stop. Now he's throwing Al Jeff under the bus........ mannnnnnnn, good riddance CJ!! :

Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
C.J. Miles also said team was put off by Al Jefferson's pre-Game 4 comments about no one beating #Spurs in playoffs.
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http://twitter.com/#!/tribjazz

Mutangclan wrote:

You guys have to follow this twitter feed, CJ just wont stop. Now he's throwing Al Jeff under the bus........ mannnnnnnn, good riddance CJ!! :

Brian T. Smith ‏ @tribjazz
C.J. Miles also said team was put off by Al Jefferson's pre-Game 4 comments about no one beating #Spurs in playoffs.
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http://twitter.com/#!/tribjazz

Funny the guys that sucked the most on the team are the ones running their mouths now. They know they will not be invited back and are taking their parting shots.

F U Chucker Miles and Crybaby Bell. Go be scrubs somewhere else!

One thing about Smith he don't have an outside game so if he is playing the SF position the Jazz are going to be in about the same spot as they are now not having a guy that can stretch the floor unless Smith is playing the PF spot most of the time his shooting is going to hurt them on the offensive end. He has gotten better but at one time Smith had a rep as being a head case at times and if the Jazz are going to have to deal with that kind of stuff then I think I would rather see them try to go after Beasley I think he brings a lot more to the court than Smith he also has an outside game that the Jazz needs for the SF position.

Calderon would be a nice pick up for the Jazz I think the good thing is there will be PG's hitting the free agent market this summer so the Jazz should be able to find someone who can fill that position for them who will make a big impact on the team they just got to go out and get one.There will also be a few guys that can hit the outside shots at a high % rate I have seen Novak name being thrown around but another guy I think fits that bill is Nick Young, neither guy is a very good defender but they both are lights out shooters.

Carroll has a team option next year. Not sure exactly what it is, but its got to be right at 1 mil or less. That is a huge steal.

This puts them at about 53.5 million next year with

jefferson
milsap
favors
kanter
hayward
carroll
bell
burks
watson
tinsley

we can take bells salary out, because he will be amnestied if not traded. that is about 50 million for 9 players, and that is not including the qualifying offer to evans, for a tad over 1 mil, which sounds about right. somebody correct me if im off.

dongibby wrote:

One thing about Smith he don't have an outside game so if he is playing the SF position the Jazz are going to be in about the same spot as they are now not having a guy that can stretch the floor unless Smith is playing the PF spot most of the time his shooting is going to hurt them one the offensive end. He has gotten better but at one time he had a rep as being a head case at times and if the Jazz are going to have to deal with that kind of stuff then I think I would rather see them try to go after Beasley I think he brings a lot more to the court than Smith he also has an outside game that the Jazz needs for the SF position.

Calderon would be a nice pick up for the Jazz I think the good thing is there will be PG's hitting the free agent market this summer so the Jazz should be able to find someone who can fill that position for them who will make a big impact on the team they just got to go out and get one.There will also be a few guys that can hit the outside shots at a high % rate I have seen Novak name being thrown around but another guy I think fits that bill is Nick Young, neither guy is a very good defender but they both are lights out shooters.

Don have you paid attention to Beasley since coming into the league? And even this past season????? He's the worst dude to add to any team....

On Smith, yes, it does not help the outside shooting, but he has all-star skills in blks/stls/rebs and he's a good scorer. I'm sure Hayward will be much like he was the second half of the season, and maybe better with his shooting. Also, possible upgrade at PG. I'd take Calderon for sure, if it comes down to he or Devin.

Rawns, remind me of the salary cap and where that leaves Utah then.....?

Good idea having Hayward play some pg. Not sure if he can get by some of the quicker pg's but he can shoot over them, post them, and play some decent defense against them.

Reading all the ideas for improvement have merit. I also think keeping all the players under contract has merit as well (cept for Bell).
However, with this being the last yr under contract for Sap, Jefferson, and Harris, you know KOC will move at least one of them.
The Jazz can't resign all three for extended contracts when Favors and Hayward will demand more money in what? three years?
I'm thinking the Jazz will evaluate who plays better with Favors- then campaign Sap or Big Al......... and I think Jefferson will be the one to go since he has more trade value - as well as retarding Favors growth.

The only reason I don't like signing Nash is he'll get killed by bigger pg's or a quicker guy like Parker, BUT, every player get's dogged by those two. If Nash can be signed for cheap, say 4 million a yr, I'd still get him to ensure good shot selection and most likely make the playoffs till our young guys blossom.

All this said, KOC won't let the 10 mil excetion go to waste. He's shrewd with saving money and maximizing talent. The trade exception most likely will be for a great player at the end of his contract that's unhappy with his current team... Much like Odom going to Dallas.

aliveandkickin wrote:

Good idea having Hayward play some pg. Not sure if he can get by some of the quicker pg's but he can shoot over them, post them, and play some decent defense against them.

Reading all the ideas for improvement have merit. I also think keeping all the players under contract has merit as well (cept for Bell).
However, with this being the last yr under contract for Sap, Jefferson, and Harris, you know KOC will move at least one of them.
The Jazz can't resign all three for extended contracts when Favors and Hayward will demand more money in what? three years?
I'm thinking the Jazz will evaluate who plays better with Favors- then campaign Sap or Big Al......... and I think Jefferson will be the one to go since he has more trade value - as well as retarding Favors growth.

The only reason I don't like signing Nash is he'll get killed by bigger pg's or a quicker guy like Parker, BUT, every player get's dogged by those two. If Nash can be signed for cheap, say 4 million a yr, I'd still get him to ensure good shot selection and most likely make the playoffs till our young guys blossom.

All this said, KOC won't let the 10 mil excetion go to waste. He's shrewd with saving money and maximizing talent. The trade exception most likely will be for a great player at the end of his contract that's unhappy with his current team... Much like Odom going to Dallas.

[b]

I actually think Millsap has more trade value comparing what he gives you and what he is being paid. Dude is a STEAL at his current rate.

[quote=Don have you paid attention to Beasley since coming into the league? And even this past season????? He's the worst dude to add to any team....

On Smith, yes, it does not help the outside shooting, but he has all-star skills in blks/stls/rebs and he's a good scorer. I'm sure Hayward will be much like he was the second half of the season, and maybe better with his shooting. Also, possible upgrade at PG. I'd take Calderon for sure, if it comes down to he or Devin.

Rawns, remind me of the salary cap and where that leaves Utah then.....?[/quote]

I understand how people think about Beasley because of his off court problems but he brings a lot of things to the court, I have not heard of him acting up in the locker room on any of the team's he has played for so as long as he keep his act together I would have no problem with him, he is the most talented SF in this summer's free agent pool and if the Jazz is going to take on a guy that has been known to be a knuckle head witch both of these guys are then I would have to take Beasley over Smith I think his game pretty much fill's ever need the Jazz has at that position.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

aliveandkickin wrote:

Good idea having Hayward play some pg. Not sure if he can get by some of the quicker pg's but he can shoot over them, post them, and play some decent defense against them.

Reading all the ideas for improvement have merit. I also think keeping all the players under contract has merit as well (cept for Bell).
However, with this being the last yr under contract for Sap, Jefferson, and Harris, you know KOC will move at least one of them.
The Jazz can't resign all three for extended contracts when Favors and Hayward will demand more money in what? three years?
I'm thinking the Jazz will evaluate who plays better with Favors- then campaign Sap or Big Al......... and I think Jefferson will be the one to go since he has more trade value - as well as retarding Favors growth.

The only reason I don't like signing Nash is he'll get killed by bigger pg's or a quicker guy like Parker, BUT, every player get's dogged by those two. If Nash can be signed for cheap, say 4 million a yr, I'd still get him to ensure good shot selection and most likely make the playoffs till our young guys blossom.

All this said, KOC won't let the 10 mil excetion go to waste. He's shrewd with saving money and maximizing talent. The trade exception most likely will be for a great player at the end of his contract that's unhappy with his current team... Much like Odom going to Dallas.

[b]

I actually think Millsap has more trade value comparing what he gives you and what he is being paid. Dude is a STEAL at his current rate.

True, I was thinking more about size and how Millsap is a tweener. Another reason to shop Jefferson

I'm having a hard time figuring out who should go, Milsap or Big Al.
I was all for Big Al hit the road, but If Jazz don't trade him for a scorer, who will score for the Jazz next season? Hayward? Favors?
Otherwise, Milsap has more trade value, IMO.

RookieJazz wrote:

I'm having a hard time figuring out who should go, Milsap or Big Al.
I was all for Big Al hit the road, but If Jazz don't trade him for a scorer, who will score for the Jazz next season? Hayward? Favors?
Otherwise, Milsap has more trade value, IMO.

Maybe the right answer for now is neither?