Millsap wants to stay in Utah

*gack* *choke* *uck*

errr...no, we CAN'T sign Jefferson for that much. Not and still have bux for Favors (I think Kanter's next will relatively cheap as he should by then just be emerging as a good player).

Millsap can easily have a role on a championship team, Al, I'm less sure of...then again, we've already seen him get a little better at that "black hole" thing, and he is big and he is a "go to guy" on offense that Millsap may never be against playoff-quality defenders. But no. It's too much money. Even if he improves...

Okay, would Millsap accept either a front-loaded contract (when we can afford it) or "bonus" (pro-rated through the contract but paid now) signing?? This gives him his money, and his loyalty and makes his contract more manageable when we also have to pay Hayward and Favors (and, hopefully, Burks). Of course, that would also put him in the position he's in now: PRIME trade-bait because 'quality guy, quality play, quality contract'.

If it's 11 mill/ so be it, but hope we can structure it so it doesn't hurt the team. Hard to say how that will work, as we don't know the extent to which Paul is involved in the ugly, sausage-making detail work of making these contracts.

Hell, maybe we want to BACK-load the contract, hoping he will still be moveable in 3-4 years, even at 12 mill??

Yet another example of the complexity and difficulty of O'Connor's job.

aliveandkickin wrote:

Howdy, being a Milsap fan, and also a realist that we'll (the Jazz) not bring a superstar into the fold (as Troll pointed out) but we'll have to create a team to compete through drafting and developing players I say........... Man, not sure if we should tie our own hands with a borderline All-Star until all options are exhausted.
Sap, agreed, won't match bucket for bucket with a LaBron or Dirk. Sap won't score at ease under the basket with a tall defender on him- but he has a well-rounded game otherwise.... at least that counts for sumthan, right?
With the contracts Magnus showed I agree that Sap is worth resigning. I also agree that signing him for five years is crazy. Signing him during the middle of this years season for four years 35-40 mill is really a great contract for him. He wants to stay he says? OK, but here's the conversation:

KOC-- we'll sign him, if he continues to produce, but in the middle of this season. He'll get an offer for 4 yrs 36 mill (9 mill a yr)

Agent-- but he wants a contract now and LOOK at these other contracts where the players are equal but paid more..

KOC-- Sap gets guaranteed money before he's a free agent. Meaning, he could get hurt during the second half of the season. If he wants what's on the table around January, he has it...... (meaning you'll have it as well Mr Agent).

Agent-- What about the fifth yr? Where's the loyalty? What's to stop us from signing with someone else?

KOC-- The loyalty just was stated by signing him for four years before the season ends- where he could get hurt otherwise. Conversely, where's his loyalty to the team when other contracts are coming up with great players that could help him win a championship?

Agent-- I dunno man. He can do better than that somewhere else (perfect poker face)

KOC-- What is important to your client? money or winning?

Agent--- Both

KOC-- Same here. The plan is; Sign Sap now for a good deal but only four yrs, downsize Favors and Haywards contracts in their first two yrs then upsize the back two years so we can keep everyone. Make sense? Everyone is happy but your guy only gets four years.... Plus we have Jefferson to resign ya know......

Agent-- er, um, I dunno, he wants his money

KOC-- you'll get your f'in money buddy, we got a deal or what? Plus he stays here where he SAYS he wants to stay.

Agent-- Ok

That's it folks. That's the negotiation.... In the meantime, shop, shop, shop Sap during the first half of the season. If we can't do better, sign him. If you think Sap will get his feelings hurt by not signing him now... tough cookies! He'll resign when, and if, the Jazz decide to do it. This is all smoke and mirrors. He brought it up now (the new contract) cuz he wants his dough. The Jazz want to wait to see how Favors develops during the first part of the season-- as well as what the heck they're going to do with Big Al... Al is just as valueable as Sap , BUT, they're not THAT valueable to sign away the Jazz's future without things playing out on the court and in trade negotiations.

I hope they wait and see who complements Favors best , or, sign them both if they're not too greedy.

I think this is a realistic point of veiw.

I like Sap and would like to keep him around, but as much as I like that the Jazz are a good organization with a winning team ... I don't want to give up hope of a future championship. And the way to get that done is taking a shot on the young guys developing into stars. That doesn't mean getting rid of all he established players, just means that some difficult decisions have to be made about who to keep, who to start, who to play , etc.

The Problem with all the contract talk is nobody knows the future. Kanter could surprise us all and come out and play like a all star next year and millsap could blow out his acl and never be the same player. Maybe we should bite the bullet and load up the front end on millsap contract so the last two years we're not paying much and if its time for one of the young guys to play big minutes and needs to be rewarded it can be done easier?Only if we could see whats gonna happen tomarrow? Hell russia could nuke us and there may never be basketball again. Then millers would wish they loaded up on food storage not basketball players. lol

TheMagnus wrote:

rorybreaker wrote:

I really like Millsap but the question is how much will he cost and what role is he willing to have on the team.
The Jazz need four bigs (and Evans) Favors is one, Kanter is another Big Al and Millsap sounds right on paper but how much will Big Al want and for how long? It would be great to know this now so the Jazz can do something through a trade between now adnd the time contracts are due. This will be tricky for KOC, if Big Al could stick around for a smaller contract his style of play would fit better shuffling between Kanter and Favors.
I would definately like to have Millsap as long as he doesn't cost more than he is worth. So in the end I'd be very careful one way or the other if I were KOC BUT, if someone offers you something to good to refuse, he better jump on it.
Tough call and I'm sure whatever happens it will make somebody pissed.

While I'm a big Kanter supporter, and a Fan of Favors, lets not get too ahead of ourselves. Even at his best last year Favors was not better than Millsap OR Jefferson, in fact he was at his best WITH them. And Kanter is still a project at best, definitely not ready for prime time.

The role the Jazz should be looking for Millsap to play is the one he has been playing, top 10/borderline-all-star starting PF. And he's worth every dime of 10 Million a year, so if the Jazz could get him for less than than they should jump on it.

As far as trades go, I think with the additions of the Williams' the Jazz needs are a lot less specific. If they trade one of the bigs they will have to sign or trade for another to take their place, if they bring in a starting quality wing in trade for a big then one of the young guys (likely Burks) will get squeezed out of the rotation.

Honestly, I'm not all that convinced that the Jazz shouldn't try to keep both Millsap and Jefferson, they've got the cap room. Kanter and Burks aren't due for a new contract for 3 years, Hayward and Favors for two, that's more than enough time to trade them if Favors and Kanter earn their spots, and if they don't then they have the option of letting the young guys go.

I'm pretty much in agreement with a lot of what you say, but comparing Kanter and Favors this early in their career's would be like saying early on, Millsap is good but look how much better Boozers numbers are than his and he was beyond a borderline All Star. The point is Boozer and Okur had their chances and didn't quite get it done, Millsap and Big Al haven't, and frankly if Millsap and Big Al had to go up against Bynum and Gasol they would lose 100 times out of 100 times, thats the point of bringing in guys like Kanter and Favors.
Like I said I like Big Al and Millsap a lot, but to get something you have to give up something, and it might have to be Millsap and or Big Al.

Trollificus wrote:

Man, I jumped to see who posted this and insulted my bwoy Mutang...shoulda known.

Also, gotta give that writer credit:
"As you may know, one extremely important factor in winning basketball games is scoring more than the other team."

At least for pointing out where stat geeks sometimes get lost.

Hahahaha, x2 Troll.

Alright, first off, I lean definitely more toward keeping this current squad together as it is, unless a trade for an actual all star/olympian whatever happens. What KOC has done, is taken an 8th seed way over achieving team, and added already to it the two things they needed most: 3pt shooting, and a leading PG. How good are ALL of those Jazz players going to be now, with those additions? And that was important because our Utah team is that team thats never going to have a Durant superstar etc. We'll never have any Jordans, but a team with 5 Scottie Pippens would beat a team with one or two Jordans and role players any day of the week. Right now we have I'd say 3 Scottie Pippens, 3 guys that will never be superstars and never will lead as such: Millsap, Al, Mo. And in my opinion, we also have 2 other guys that could be very good Scottie Pippen like teammates, in Gordo and Favors.

This isn't Utah homerism, but since it is Utah, and we dont get superstars, we need to keep all our Scottie Pippens. Resigning Paul Millsap at 10m per season, for 4 or 5 years should be done. He's now arrived to his peak years and it just started. He lead the league I believe in all PF's in steals, and can pass, play defense, hustle, he has a great mid range game for PF and can score from everywhere else, also is a good teammate etc. Signing a borderline all star just prior to the start of his peak years, who although is not elite, does not really have any deficiencies, and he wants to be here, should be a no-brainer. All signs point to him getting even slightly better than he already has been, AND, he also now has a very good PG to help make him even better.

Al, in his lone, lock-out shortened, no training camp season, had the best of his career. The Blackhole showed that he can indeed pass the ball a bit. He was a top 5 center statistically this past season, and now he has an all-star caliber PG to make him better. Al also finally has 3pt shooting to open up the lanes for him more. Will Al not be even better this year??? With those things, Al could be looking at 24-27pts per game, ya dig? Keeper. Just will need to adjust that contract eventually, and maybe it's one of those "I'll take a bit less, since I want to be here" things.

Mo was slapped in the face for most of the past few years, and especially last year when the starting PG/young team leading/Sportscenter heavy Clips swiped that starting spot right away from him, with minutes gone too. Now he gets what he wants, a starting gig on a new team, and hey, look at that, he's ecstatic to come to Utah.

So add all that to the Favors/Gordo/Burks/Kanter/DC combo who will all be better this year than last, AND our new 3pt/multi threat SF in Marv, and keeping this team together seems like a pretty good idea. Get to know them a bit better, see what we actually have. Our window isn't closing, it's barely opening. We dont have any immediate holes to fill at all, and these contracts can wait. I dont want to see some trade, to open up a spot for Favors, just to bring back some decent role players off the bench. We have studs now. Ty can figure out the minutes.

So thats my bottom line, go with this, see what we've got. It's not a log jam of bigs, it's a plethora of talent. Unless a trade goes down for someone like Josh Smith, or Rudy Gay, legitimate Olympian All Star talents, we keep all our Scottie Pippens and harrass the hell out of all the superstar guys.

**Just saw this:
Brian T. Smith ‏@tribjazz
O'Connor said Jazz could still be players in free agency. Utah's remained active in talks and continues to explore options.

I think(and smile) it's going to be a sign and trade with CJ Miles, to add another 2 guard. Sweet.

Mutangclan wrote:

Alright, first off, I lean definitely more toward keeping this current squad together as it is, unless a trade for an actual all star/olympian whatever happens. What KOC has done, is taken an 8th seed way over achieving team, and added already to it the two things they needed most: 3pt shooting, and a leading PG. How good are ALL of those Jazz players going to be now, with those additions? And that was important because our Utah team is that team thats never going to have a Durant superstar etc. We'll never have any Jordans, but a team with 5 Scottie Pippens would beat a team with one or two Jordans and role players any day of the week. Right now we have I'd say 3 Scottie Pippens, 3 guys that will never be superstars and never will lead as such: Millsap, Al, Mo. And in my opinion, we also have 2 other guys that could be very good Scottie Pippen like teammates, in Gordo and Favors.

This isn't Utah homerism, but since it is Utah, and we dont get superstars, we need to keep all our Scottie Pippens. Resigning Paul Millsap at 10m per season, for 4 or 5 years should be done. He's now arrived to his peak years and it just started. He lead the league I believe in all PF's in steals, and can pass, play defense, hustle, he has a great mid range game for PF and can score from everywhere else, also is a good teammate etc. Signing a borderline all star just prior to the start of his peak years, who although is not elite, does not really have any deficiencies, and he wants to be here, should be a no-brainer. All signs point to him getting even slightly better than he already has been, AND, he also now has a very good PG to help make him even better.

Al, in his lone, lock-out shortened, no training camp season, had the best of his career. The Blackhole showed that he can indeed pass the ball a bit. He was a top 5 center statistically this past season, and now he has an all-star caliber PG to make him better. Al also finally has 3pt shooting to open up the lanes for him more. Will Al not be even better this year??? With those things, Al could be looking at 24-27pts per game, ya dig? Keeper. Just will need to adjust that contract eventually, and maybe it's one of those "I'll take a bit less, since I want to be here" things.

Mo was slapped in the face for most of the past few years, and especially last year when the starting PG/young team leading/Sportscenter heavy Clips swiped that starting spot right away from him, with minutes gone too. Now he gets what he wants, a starting gig on a new team, and hey, look at that, he's ecstatic to come to Utah.

So add all that to the Favors/Gordo/Burks/Kanter/DC combo who will all be better this year than last, AND our new 3pt/multi threat SF in Marv, and keeping this team together seems like a pretty good idea. Get to know them a bit better, see what we actually have. Our window isn't closing, it's barely opening. We dont have any immediate holes to fill at all, and these contracts can wait. I dont want to see some trade, to open up a spot for Favors, just to bring back some decent role players off the bench. We have studs now. Ty can figure out the minutes.

So thats my bottom line, go with this, see what we've got. It's not a log jam of bigs, it's a plethora of talent. Unless a trade goes down for someone like Josh Smith, or Rudy Gay, legitimate Olympian All Star talents, we keep all our Scottie Pippens and harrass the hell out of all the superstar guys.

**Just saw this:
Brian T. Smith ‏@tribjazz
O'Connor said Jazz could still be players in free agency. Utah's remained active in talks and continues to explore options.

I think(and smile) it's going to be a sign and trade with CJ Miles, to add another 2 guard. Sweet.

I think you are right. Maybe pick up another guy via FA and run with this team this season. Then next off season KOC can see where we were good and not so good and make player adjustments based on that.

You can't put together a championship team over the course of one off season. Kevin put a plan into motion when he traded Deron away and I think it's going very well. Just stay the course and kinda let things play themselves out.

I also agree with you on Milsap. I think you offer him a 5 year $50 million extension. If he insists on anymore than that I look to trade him before the deadline. He is a great player but not 13-14 a year great.

I also think you offer Al the same $10m per year offer. He is worth it, but again no more than that. Then Corbin can play around with the lineups. Milsap or Jefferson would both dominate coming off the bench. Either way Favors has to start from here on out.

I like Al starting at center with Kanter backing him up and Favors starting at PF with Milsap backing him up. That is as dominate front court as you are ever going to see.

Romoholic wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Alright, first off, I lean definitely more toward keeping this current squad together as it is, unless a trade for an actual all star/olympian whatever happens. What KOC has done, is taken an 8th seed way over achieving team, and added already to it the two things they needed most: 3pt shooting, and a leading PG. How good are ALL of those Jazz players going to be now, with those additions? And that was important because our Utah team is that team thats never going to have a Durant superstar etc. We'll never have any Jordans, but a team with 5 Scottie Pippens would beat a team with one or two Jordans and role players any day of the week. Right now we have I'd say 3 Scottie Pippens, 3 guys that will never be superstars and never will lead as such: Millsap, Al, Mo. And in my opinion, we also have 2 other guys that could be very good Scottie Pippen like teammates, in Gordo and Favors.

This isn't Utah homerism, but since it is Utah, and we dont get superstars, we need to keep all our Scottie Pippens. Resigning Paul Millsap at 10m per season, for 4 or 5 years should be done. He's now arrived to his peak years and it just started. He lead the league I believe in all PF's in steals, and can pass, play defense, hustle, he has a great mid range game for PF and can score from everywhere else, also is a good teammate etc. Signing a borderline all star just prior to the start of his peak years, who although is not elite, does not really have any deficiencies, and he wants to be here, should be a no-brainer. All signs point to him getting even slightly better than he already has been, AND, he also now has a very good PG to help make him even better.

Al, in his lone, lock-out shortened, no training camp season, had the best of his career. The Blackhole showed that he can indeed pass the ball a bit. He was a top 5 center statistically this past season, and now he has an all-star caliber PG to make him better. Al also finally has 3pt shooting to open up the lanes for him more. Will Al not be even better this year??? With those things, Al could be looking at 24-27pts per game, ya dig? Keeper. Just will need to adjust that contract eventually, and maybe it's one of those "I'll take a bit less, since I want to be here" things.

Mo was slapped in the face for most of the past few years, and especially last year when the starting PG/young team leading/Sportscenter heavy Clips swiped that starting spot right away from him, with minutes gone too. Now he gets what he wants, a starting gig on a new team, and hey, look at that, he's ecstatic to come to Utah.

So add all that to the Favors/Gordo/Burks/Kanter/DC combo who will all be better this year than last, AND our new 3pt/multi threat SF in Marv, and keeping this team together seems like a pretty good idea. Get to know them a bit better, see what we actually have. Our window isn't closing, it's barely opening. We dont have any immediate holes to fill at all, and these contracts can wait. I dont want to see some trade, to open up a spot for Favors, just to bring back some decent role players off the bench. We have studs now. Ty can figure out the minutes.

So thats my bottom line, go with this, see what we've got. It's not a log jam of bigs, it's a plethora of talent. Unless a trade goes down for someone like Josh Smith, or Rudy Gay, legitimate Olympian All Star talents, we keep all our Scottie Pippens and harrass the hell out of all the superstar guys.

**Just saw this:
Brian T. Smith ‏@tribjazz
O'Connor said Jazz could still be players in free agency. Utah's remained active in talks and continues to explore options.

I think(and smile) it's going to be a sign and trade with CJ Miles, to add another 2 guard. Sweet.

I think you are right. Maybe pick up another guy via FA and run with this team this season. Then next off season KOC can see where we were good and not so good and make player adjustments based on that.

You can't put together a championship team over the course of one off season. Kevin put a plan into motion when he traded Deron away and I think it's going very well. Just stay the course and kinda let things play themselves out.

I also agree with you on Milsap. I think you offer him a 5 year $50 million extension. If he insists on anymore than that I look to trade him before the deadline. He is a great player but not 13-14 a year great.

I also think you offer Al the same $10m per year offer. He is worth it, but again no more than that. Then Corbin can play around with the lineups. Milsap or Jefferson would both dominate coming off the bench. Either way Favors has to start from here on out.

I like Al starting at center with Kanter backing him up and Favors starting at PF with Milsap backing him up. That is as dominate front court as you are ever going to see.

man, we have short memories. remember the gasol bynum odom front court LA had? nobody could touch them. Duncan Robinson?

therawns wrote:

Romoholic wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Alright, first off, I lean definitely more toward keeping this current squad together as it is, unless a trade for an actual all star/olympian whatever happens. What KOC has done, is taken an 8th seed way over achieving team, and added already to it the two things they needed most: 3pt shooting, and a leading PG. How good are ALL of those Jazz players going to be now, with those additions? And that was important because our Utah team is that team thats never going to have a Durant superstar etc. We'll never have any Jordans, but a team with 5 Scottie Pippens would beat a team with one or two Jordans and role players any day of the week. Right now we have I'd say 3 Scottie Pippens, 3 guys that will never be superstars and never will lead as such: Millsap, Al, Mo. And in my opinion, we also have 2 other guys that could be very good Scottie Pippen like teammates, in Gordo and Favors.

This isn't Utah homerism, but since it is Utah, and we dont get superstars, we need to keep all our Scottie Pippens. Resigning Paul Millsap at 10m per season, for 4 or 5 years should be done. He's now arrived to his peak years and it just started. He lead the league I believe in all PF's in steals, and can pass, play defense, hustle, he has a great mid range game for PF and can score from everywhere else, also is a good teammate etc. Signing a borderline all star just prior to the start of his peak years, who although is not elite, does not really have any deficiencies, and he wants to be here, should be a no-brainer. All signs point to him getting even slightly better than he already has been, AND, he also now has a very good PG to help make him even better.

Al, in his lone, lock-out shortened, no training camp season, had the best of his career. The Blackhole showed that he can indeed pass the ball a bit. He was a top 5 center statistically this past season, and now he has an all-star caliber PG to make him better. Al also finally has 3pt shooting to open up the lanes for him more. Will Al not be even better this year??? With those things, Al could be looking at 24-27pts per game, ya dig? Keeper. Just will need to adjust that contract eventually, and maybe it's one of those "I'll take a bit less, since I want to be here" things.

Mo was slapped in the face for most of the past few years, and especially last year when the starting PG/young team leading/Sportscenter heavy Clips swiped that starting spot right away from him, with minutes gone too. Now he gets what he wants, a starting gig on a new team, and hey, look at that, he's ecstatic to come to Utah.

So add all that to the Favors/Gordo/Burks/Kanter/DC combo who will all be better this year than last, AND our new 3pt/multi threat SF in Marv, and keeping this team together seems like a pretty good idea. Get to know them a bit better, see what we actually have. Our window isn't closing, it's barely opening. We dont have any immediate holes to fill at all, and these contracts can wait. I dont want to see some trade, to open up a spot for Favors, just to bring back some decent role players off the bench. We have studs now. Ty can figure out the minutes.

So thats my bottom line, go with this, see what we've got. It's not a log jam of bigs, it's a plethora of talent. Unless a trade goes down for someone like Josh Smith, or Rudy Gay, legitimate Olympian All Star talents, we keep all our Scottie Pippens and harrass the hell out of all the superstar guys.

**Just saw this:
Brian T. Smith ‏@tribjazz
O'Connor said Jazz could still be players in free agency. Utah's remained active in talks and continues to explore options.

I think(and smile) it's going to be a sign and trade with CJ Miles, to add another 2 guard. Sweet.

I think you are right. Maybe pick up another guy via FA and run with this team this season. Then next off season KOC can see where we were good and not so good and make player adjustments based on that.

You can't put together a championship team over the course of one off season. Kevin put a plan into motion when he traded Deron away and I think it's going very well. Just stay the course and kinda let things play themselves out.

I also agree with you on Milsap. I think you offer him a 5 year $50 million extension. If he insists on anymore than that I look to trade him before the deadline. He is a great player but not 13-14 a year great.

I also think you offer Al the same $10m per year offer. He is worth it, but again no more than that. Then Corbin can play around with the lineups. Milsap or Jefferson would both dominate coming off the bench. Either way Favors has to start from here on out.

I like Al starting at center with Kanter backing him up and Favors starting at PF with Milsap backing him up. That is as dominate front court as you are ever going to see.

man, we have short memories. remember the gasol bynum odom front court LA had? nobody could touch them. Duncan Robinson?

I'll give you Duncan and Robinson. Bynum wasn't that great when LA won their last ring. Odom was ok but has never been a dominate player. That team won BECAUSE of MJ wannabe. Their front court was not the center piece of that team. Ours is and the Spurs was too.

Magnus and I are going back and forth about this on another, but I'm just thinking about the totality of the Paul Millsap experience.

We all differ on whether Paul SHOULD start, whether its the best to bring him off the bench, whether or not he's earned it regardless. But his extension still hasn't happened, and I'm starting to think that its not going to. Starting to think that maybe next summer, KOC may let all those contracts expire, and they'll end up 50m or so UNDER the luxury tax line. Thats insane! So kind of excited, but probably more worried that everybody is going to expire, and KOC is going all in for one, or probably two superstars. So crazy.....

But I digress! Paul Millsap. I think our best starting 5 should be Mo/GH/Marv/Fav/Al, so that our bench unit comes off as Burks/Foye/Paul/Kanter/DC. Both are sick lineups. What if KOC came to Paul, said, hey Paul. We love your guts. We'd like to resign you to a lengthy 5yr/48-53m contract. We'd also like for you to be our dominant 6th man but play around 35mins a night. How does that sound?
I think it's ideal, and I'd hope Paul would go for it. He's absolutely worth it, and compared to others around the league thats a good contract. He'd play the most minutes on the team as a versatile SF/PF, just in a 6th man role. He'd get the security of a 5 year deal, and is paid well for it. Could he/should he/should they do it?

That's kind of a scary proposition. I like the idea of having that much cap space, but if you miss on the big names, where does that leave you? We have a few rookie contracts coming up in the next couple of years and if Favors blows up this season, someone will offer him close to a max deal and the Jazz will have to match. How many max deals can Utah handle? Probably only one. It's gonna be tough fo KOC to keep this team together and improving in the Utah market. He has proved he does things a little different than most other GMs, So I'm sure he has a plan.

It's just a little dicey letting your best players expire without having a sure thing in place. I don't really see them letting Mo expire though. They need the pg position to be stable in order to facilitate the improvement of the team.

There's one thing I'd like to add to this discussion. Competition often brings out the best in people. We all see Favor's potential to become something special. Playing time is only one part of the equation in my mind. Having Al and Milsap around to provide some tough competiton I think is the other half of the equation. Just giving him the starting spot, as opposed to making him earn it, in my mind is counterproductive to both Favor's development and the teams success.

Because of our three bigs, Milsap's, Favor's and Al's ability to play multiple positions, there is no reason all three could not be getting 30 minutes of playing time, while pushing each other for more time, starting spots etc. I think this is the optimal way to move forward.

I'm ok with Millsap, Jefferson and Favors playing each 30 minutes per game. The important thing this year is to make jumpshots in a consistent basis; if that happens our frontcourt guys will have a good chance to succeed night in night out.

But with Hayward/Williams aboard I see no reason to play Millsap more than casual minutes here and there at SF.

So I guess that barring an injury (or a player failing to produce) this will be a 6 minutes per game season for Kanter...

outerspacefan wrote:

I'm ok with Millsap, Jefferson and Favors playing each 30 minutes per game. The important thing this year is to make jumpshots in a consistent basis; if that happens our frontcourt guys will have a good chance to succeed night in night out.

But with Hayward/Williams aboard I see no reason to play Millsap more than casual minutes here and there at SF.

So I guess that barring an injury (or a player failing to produce) this will be a 6 minutes per game season for Kanter...

Yea, that will change everything. I think we now have 5 legitimate mid-range shooters that can quickly get open and knock it down: Mo/Marv/GH/Foye/Burks. And really they can also pump-fake and go to the hole if someone gets there too which will keep a guy from always going after the jumper.
I seriously believe our season is going to be awesome, inside, outside, downtown. We can score from everywhere.

Minutes are going to be tight, aren't they. Kanter......hmmmm

Foul trouble and injuries (hopefully minor) are GUARANTEED.

Kanter will average closer to 20 minutes than 6 (of course, that's only like 14, but still...)

If we have any of our "bigs" injured for a few games and then foul trouble for one of the other bigs, we're going to be REAL glad we got Marvin and players are going to seem scarcer than minutes. I GUESS Evans can put in some short stints at PF, but I don't think it's ideal.

Trollificus wrote:

Foul trouble and injuries (hopefully minor) are GUARANTEED.

Kanter will average closer to 20 minutes than 6 (of course, that's only like 14, but still...)

If we have any of our "bigs" injured for a few games and then foul trouble for one of the other bigs, we're going to be REAL glad we got Marvin and players are going to seem scarcer than minutes. I GUESS Evans can put in some short stints at PF, but I don't think it's ideal.

Foul trouble and injuries are absolutely GUARANTED.

I do think Evans, while not the optimal option, is at least a player who always seem to do some positive things during his limited minutes.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222806/Millsap_Jazz_Discuss_Extension

Alright, so now what? Utah offers Paul the most they can, and Pauls not accepting, 3yr 25m extension. So he becomes a free agent next summer. He's making something close to 8m per now, and the ext would be for a bit over 8m per. What else can Utah do? Is this surprising, not surprising, or just shitty?
Sidenote: it is interesting that there has been talk for a bit about Pauls extension, but not a peep about an Al Jeff extension.....

Mutangclan wrote:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222806/Millsap_Jazz_Discuss_Extension

Alright, so now what? Utah offers Paul the most they can, and Pauls not accepting, 3yr 25m extension. So he becomes a free agent next summer. He's making something close to 8m per now, and the ext would be for a bit over 8m per. What else can Utah do? Is this surprising, not surprising, or just shitty?
Sidenote: it is interesting that there has been talk for a bit about Pauls extension, but not a peep about an Al Jeff extension.....

I think this was a perfunctory offer by the jazz. I don't think they even expected him to accept. It was the most they could offer him now, and if he happens to accept....bargain. This way, Paul (& fans) know management is interested....and he doesn't feel disrespected.
Per CBA, next year, when he becomes UFA, they can offer him more. I'm sure the jazz hoped he would accept.....but if I'm Millsap and I see the contracts that Gerald Wallace, AK, and others are getting...I say thanks but no thanks too.
However, this isn't a clear sign that Paul is gone.

So Paul never becomes a RFA?

He was RFA before when Portland offered him deal and jazz matched. This will be his first time being a UFA.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

He was RFA before when Portland offered him deal and jazz matched. This will be his first time being a UFA.

Uh oh.......

So as far as I can tell then, Utah did it's best so far, to retain Paul Millsap. He has denied their offer, in hopes of signing a bigger contract this summer. But this summer, Utah can probably offer another year long and another 10m or whatever more than anyone else, correct???
Hmmm, so as it stands now........someone will offer something absurd for him I guess, and he'll be gone.
Also, with him denying the extension, does this not make it pretty freaking likely he is traded sometime during the season so that Utah doesn't lose him for nothing? Seems seriously likely now...

Mutangclan wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

He was RFA before when Portland offered him deal and jazz matched. This will be his first time being a UFA.

Uh oh.......

So as far as I can tell then, Utah did it's best so far, to retain Paul Millsap. He has denied their offer, in hopes of signing a bigger contract this summer. But this summer, Utah can probably offer another year long and another 10m or whatever more than anyone else, correct???
Hmmm, so as it stands now........someone will offer something absurd for him I guess, and he'll be gone.
Also, with him denying the extension, does this not make it pretty freaking likely he is traded sometime during the season so that Utah doesn't lose him for nothing? Seems seriously likely now...

I really want to keep Paul around, but I can't help but think the same way you are Mu.

Wouldn't it be nice if a player that "wants" to stay on a team actually proved it by taking a MEASLY 8 million a year instead of making the team sweat it out & hope he resigns in the offseason for $10 million, which also means that the team will have $2 million less to spend to improve the team around him?

I know, I know, who wouldn't want to make $2 million more, right? But still ....

The Sap for Iggy type of trade is sounding better & better. I sure as hell don't want the team losing him for nothing in the offseason, or have to pay him a ton, while still trying to find a way to retain & play Favors & Enes. He's a very good player, but not a frachise guy. If they can get guaranteed value for him now, and still have Al, Favors, Marvin & Kanter available to sop up his minutes, then I don't see how it's not at least looked into.

zero24gravity wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

The Voice of Reason wrote:

He was RFA before when Portland offered him deal and jazz matched. This will be his first time being a UFA.

Uh oh.......

So as far as I can tell then, Utah did it's best so far, to retain Paul Millsap. He has denied their offer, in hopes of signing a bigger contract this summer. But this summer, Utah can probably offer another year long and another 10m or whatever more than anyone else, correct???
Hmmm, so as it stands now........someone will offer something absurd for him I guess, and he'll be gone.
Also, with him denying the extension, does this not make it pretty freaking likely he is traded sometime during the season so that Utah doesn't lose him for nothing? Seems seriously likely now...

I really want to keep Paul around, but I can't help but think the same way you are Mu.

Wouldn't it be nice if a player that "wants" to stay on a team actually proved it by taking a MEASLY 8 million a year instead of making the team sweat it out & hope he resigns in the offseason for $10 million, which also means that the team will have $2 million less to spend to improve the team around him?

I know, I know, who wouldn't want to make $2 million more, right? But still ....

The Sap for Iggy type of trade is sounding better & better. I sure as hell don't want the team losing him for nothing in the offseason, or have to pay him a ton, while still trying to find a way to retain & play Favors & Enes. He's a very good player, but not a frachise guy. If they can get guaranteed value for him now, and still have Al, Favors, Marvin & Kanter available to sop up his minutes, then I don't see how it's not at least looked into.

You may want to read the article again. It says the Jazz and Milsap have begun negotiations not concluded them.

It also says the Jazz offered 25 million over three years, the maximum they could offer under the new CBA. This doesn't mean this is the most the Jazz can offer ever, it only means its the most they can offer right now. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm guessing this offer represents an extension of his current contract, which is why 25 million and three years repesents a maximum.

The new CBA is designed to help teams retain their FA's. Under the FA rules the Jazz can offer him the five year 48-53 Million dollar deal many folks on this board has suggested as fair.

The offer discussed in the article is simply the Jazz opening the negotiation process by saying to Milsap we want you and offering a deal they probably expected he would turn down, not because he doesn't want to play for the Jazz, rather because he knows its in his best interest to negotiate. Other teams may only sign him to a four year deal, the Jazz may sign him to five years.

Here's the choices with the Jazz. Milsap could sign for three years, then try to get a big payday. This may or may not work out. On the other hand he could get a fairly lucrative five year deal now, paying him around the 10 million range for five years.

If I'm Milsap, I turn down this initial offer, play my butt off this year, see how far we go, then make a decision about my future. I'm one who believes loyalty goes both directions. As fans we discuss a player's willingness or obligation to take less money to show his loyalty to the team, on the same thread, we're discussing trying to convince him to come off the bench, all while considering trading him.

Where's our loyalty to this guy? All he has done was come to the Jazz, play hard, play hurt, work his butt off, improve every year, do things many of us thought he could not do, like rebound with the big boys, move to SF and defend them, rank in the top of the steal category while playing alot of time at PF, extend his shooting range year after year etc.

I for one think we should be asking Al to become the sixth man, because I think Milsap and Favors make a better tandum and I think Al could school the other teams subs as easily as Milsap could. Oh, but wait there's the little thing called money. We can't not start Al because he makes more money than Milsap, even though it can be argued and the stats Mags has presented show Milsap is the more effective player.

Me? I hope Milsap waits until he can sign for five years, then, agrees to a 48-53 million dollar contract, even though it still leaves him making less than Al, on the first day the Jazz are allowed to offer it to him.

Right but, and correct me if I'm wrong, he's an UFA this summer. So when he goes out on the market, someone like Portland of course, or Indiana, Orlando and on and on, will come in and offer him a deal at 4yrs/52million or something. Thats going to happen, right? Nothing to prevent teams from offering him that, and you know someone will.

So unfortunately, I dont thinks it's anything about loyalty now, from either the player or organization. Now it's about who's going to offer the most money. And when you have a team like the Magic who will have a ton of money, or Dallas, or Indiana or whoever, they're going to come in and offer Paul 11, 12, 13 or even 15m a year. Is Utah also going to offer the same contract to him then? Doubtful. Should they? I lean toward doubtful too. So what do you think? Its going to come down to TeamA offering Millsap 4yrs/52million or TeamB-Utah offering 5 years/50m?

I'm not saying Paul should have accepted the extension. He shouldn't have. And there's nothing else Utah can do. So it seems, that this CBA just doesn't work out in Utah's favor in this instance. Paul isn't a max player, but is good enough to make more than 8m a season. So some team will swoop in and scoop up a great player that they'll over pay for. Sucks for Utah........and also means I think we have a mid-season or possibly even before season trade coming. Back to the Iguodala talk??? Sheesh.

Some team will come in and offer him 12-14m a season for 4 years. Utah will offer a 5yr contract at no more than 11m I bet. And Paul will probably be gone. Or more likely, trade is coming for a starting quality player.

PS: Where in the world is Magnus on this!?

I understand that this is just the beginning of negotiations & that it is very likely the Jazz will end up locking him up for over 10 million a year once it's all said and done.

Loyalty is tough to gage.

Is it loyal to a team to play hard & say you want to be there? Sure. Does it hurt your status as "loyal" if you want to get as much money as possible? Probably not, we do live in a world of "Who dies with the most money & toys wins". Is it loyal to take less money in order to sign other players that help you win? Absolutley, but very few players do so. Is it loyal to take whatever role is given to you, despite what you think you've "earned". I would say "yes".

These questions could be posed to ANY player on any team; Sap, Favors, whoever.

What I do feel comfortable saying is, if Paul is the best player on the team, the chances of being a great team are slim. Favors, Burks, etc NEED to develop & be the centerpieces if this team is going to become a contender IMO. The Jazz can't pay the big bucks out to secondary players at the expense of signing/trading for better players & being able to re-sign their emerging stars. I'm 100% on the Favor's train. I think he has the makings of something special, given the opportunity, so any minutes that become available to him, are good IMO.

I want Millsap on this team, and I know that the market dictates his price as over $10 million a year, but I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with that cost for a player that may only be the third best/most valuable "big" on the team by the end of the season.

I have tons of love for Paul, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to think big picture here. Jefferson probably isn't as good all around, but his skill of putting it in the hole from the post is somthing nobody else on the team can even come close to. He also doesn't have a contract that would be as attractive to other teams in a trade scenario, so if one of those guys is going to move, it'll probably be Millsap.