Tyrone Corbin... TY CORBIN!!!!!!

outerspacefan wrote:

- It's so darn easy: just don't play Earl and Marvin; I don't get why Corbin doesn't get it
- Burks/Kanter shouldn'd have been on court to close the game; Foye/Millsap should't have been on court
- I am not asking for Corbin's head and I'm pretty sure Jazz FO won't fire him... at least not before the end of the season (wich will be inmediatly after game 82... )
- I feel Millsap's era is coming to an end, and I take for granted Jefferson won't be in SLC next season
- Next season we will suffer again, may be more than this season... but at least we will be watching big minutes from Favors, Kantes, Burks, Evans... and it will be good to see

Thats the ticket. Why are we going 10 deep???! What a waste that was, getting DC to finally start, and he plays 14 minutes. And the Jazz go 10 deep. And they lose, again. Corbin finally makes the correct identification of a problem, and then ALMOST remedies it. fml.

I hope you're right Magnus. Between the ruining of our record, starting Marvin all year, making changes but not the correct ones, terrible rotations, HORRENDOUS play calling(out of bounds, end of game) and overall not recognizing a balanced product, I hope Corbin is fired. Ruined this season, ruined it.

They need to make up a +/- for Coaches and their decisions. Corbin would be -22 on the season.....only +/- worse than Marvin.

Two GREAT articles about why Corbin doesn't have a clue, and better explains the things I've been cursing about and others of you on here have shouted:

http://www.slcdunk.com/2013/3/5/4066628/the-downbeat-the-blah-edition

http://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat/2013/3/7/4074692/the-downbeat-984-the-puking-rainbows-and-potty-mouths-edition


There is no way, that a professional NBA coach, with asst's at his side like Hornacek, do not see the same things. No freaking way. This is their only job 24/7. Which leads me to believe it's something else, like a silly "gotta play the vets" mantra in journeyman Corbins' mind. He single-handedly ruined a playoff run for this team. Because we're not doing shi.... at the 8th seed. If we make it.

TheMagnus wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

But, now for the crushing self-examining part of my diatribe. I've wavered on this, myself. But, I don't think DC is ready to start in the NBA! I love his energy and all-out style of play. But, as much chaos he can throw at our opponents, it doesn't help our team defense. DC will seemingly risk his life to stop an opponent from hitting a three-- but, it doesn't help us if he leaves his man open for a layup or an easy rebound. DC is a great weapon we can use, but someone needs to get him focused.

Couldn't disagree with this more. The results speak for themselves, the ONLY reason the Jazz where in a position ot blow this game was because the starting unit came out and played some D for the first time in ages. They were I cold to start the third bu tit didn't hurt them cause they got stops.

Wow, Mag, you completely ignored my first two paragraphs and then went on a poorly spelled rant that was off-base! Please re-examine your post and the game we're talking about. I was right on, and you, well, you seem to be crazy. I had a lot of respect for you, but that is waning. Look at what I said. It was accurate. Someone else chime in-- it's an important discussion for Jazz fans. If this is supposed to be a serious fan forum, it's got to be serious and objective.

And, if I'm not welcome on this site, I will leave. Just let me know.

Saint Louis wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

But, now for the crushing self-examining part of my diatribe. I've wavered on this, myself. But, I don't think DC is ready to start in the NBA! I love his energy and all-out style of play. But, as much chaos he can throw at our opponents, it doesn't help our team defense. DC will seemingly risk his life to stop an opponent from hitting a three-- but, it doesn't help us if he leaves his man open for a layup or an easy rebound. DC is a great weapon we can use, but someone needs to get him focused.

Couldn't disagree with this more. The results speak for themselves, the ONLY reason the Jazz where in a position ot blow this game was because the starting unit came out and played some D for the first time in ages. They were I cold to start the third bu tit didn't hurt them cause they got stops.

Wow, Mag, you completely ignored my first two paragraphs and then went on a poorly spelled rant that was off-base! Please re-examine your post and the game we're talking about. I was right on, and you, well, you seem to be crazy. I had a lot of respect for you, but that is waning. Look at what I said. It was accurate. Someone else chime in-- it's an important discussion for Jazz fans. If this is supposed to be a serious fan forum, it's got to be serious and objective.

And, if I'm not welcome on this site, I will leave. Just let me know.

St. Lou, I don't think Mags diatribe was over the top, but guessing from the spelling maybe a little adult beverage fueled. As far as I'm concerned your input on this board is solid and valued. I see both sides of this "argument". DC is an unknown quantity as a starter this year because in his first start he got all of 14 minutes of PT. As evidenced in the Milwaukee game, DC did screw up in some critical moments - whether this is a chronic part of his game or not, I am not convinced. All I do know is that DC is an upgrade over Marvin and should start over him. However, I still believe, and especially with how well Burks/Kanter/Favors are playing right now, that GH should be moved into the starting line-up. In my perfect world, Foye and Marvin go to the bench, DC and GH start. And regarding Foye, I posted the stats in a different thread, but he is basically neck and neck with CJ Miles in terms of points and shooting percentage in more minutes. And we all know how excited we would be right now starting CJ, right? Foye is seriously overrated, he is a one trick pony who should be used accordingly and only see extended minutes off the bench when his shot is falling and he is not guarding Kyrie Irving. DC deserves at least a dozen games starting over Marv, (if GH doesn't start instead) to see what his body of work looks like as a starter.

Saint Louis wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Couldn't disagree with this more. The results speak for themselves, the ONLY reason the Jazz where in a position ot blow this game was because the starting unit came out and played some D for the first time in ages. They were I cold to start the third bu tit didn't hurt them cause they got stops.

Wow, Mag, you completely ignored my first two paragraphs and then went on a poorly spelled rant that was off-base! Please re-examine your post and the game we're talking about. I was right on, and you, well, you seem to be crazy. I had a lot of respect for you, but that is waning. Look at what I said. It was accurate. Someone else chime in-- it's an important discussion for Jazz fans. If this is supposed to be a serious fan forum, it's got to be serious and objective.

And, if I'm not welcome on this site, I will leave. Just let me know.

Wow Saint, didnt' know you were so fragile, you want me to put the kid gloves on so you don't get all butt-hurt next time?

I was in a hurry and typing from my lame old phone, and I'll admit it came accross pretty bad in a skiier sort of way, but that's no reason to get all pouty, and I assure you if I wanted to "rant" the post would be much longer and leave little doubt about what I thought was right and wrong. for example....



The comment was just a statement that I thought you were wrong about what you said about Demarre, which had little to do with the rest of your well thought out post on the merits of Ty Corbin as a coach, and which I thought might lead to a little conversation since we've mentioned this topic before. Specifically I took issue with this....

Quote :

But, I don't think DC is ready to start in the NBA! I love his energy and all-out style of play. But, as much chaos he can throw at our opponents, it doesn't help our team defense. DC will seemingly risk his life to stop an opponent from hitting a three-- but, it doesn't help us if he leaves his man open for a layup or an easy rebound.

So lets break this down sentence by sentence, calmly and thoughtfully.

The term "ready to start in the NBA" really has no meaning, especially in the context of this Jazz team which has started 3 of it's 5 worst active players for a majority of games this season.

Energy is exactly what has been lacking in the Jazz first unit, even Ty Corbin for all of his flaws identified that as one of the main problems and the reason for making DC a starter.

The numbers show it absolutely helps our team defense. Demarre has the best "on court" defensive rating of everybody on the Jazz team, meaning that the Jazz are better defensively when he is on the court than with any other player. What makes that more impressive is that he's played significant time with the starting unit, which is otherwise horrible defensively.

Stopping opponents from hitting the 3 has become a foundational tenet of playing Defense in the game of basketball. The term "running them off the 3 pt line" means exactly what it says, if a shooter has the ball at the 3pt line you do whatever you have to do to disrupt his rhythm, including running at him like a mad man. The fact that Demarre does this is not a negative, it is one of the primary reasons he's a good team defender. If a guy gets an open layup or a rebound because a perimeter defender runs his guy (or someone elses guy) off the 3pt line then that failure is on the other 4 guys who just stood around and watched. That's especially true in Demarre's case, because not only does he fly out on guys, but he also flies back to help, so all guys have to do is cut of the lane to the basket and Demarre will probably recover in time to either steal a pass or grab a rebound. You watch him next time and tell me if I'm wrong.


I mentioned this on another thread, and I'll repeat it here so you know I'm not trying to say I think Demarre is perfect. The problem with Demarre isn't that he runs out at 3's like a mad man, the problem is that he gives up too many open ones. He often overcommits and/or gambles from the weak side when he either shouldn't or doesn't need to, when he's on average shooters, ball handlers, or slashers it works just fine, but when he's guarding spot up shooters he can get himself in real trouble. That was the case when he got torched by Butler against the Clips, and again more recently against the Bucks. He was guarding the best shooter on the court (Reddick), Jennings and Ellis were attacking the paint relentlessly, Demarre started cheating hard into the paint, and not just puting one foot in the key to "show" like all the coaches teach, but completely leaving Reddick by himself on the back side to go and cut off the drive in the middle of the paint. Jennings realizes this and starts driving straight at him then kicking it to Reddick, and 3 3's later the Jazz lose in overtime. The worst part about that is that he didn't have to do it, Kanter and Millsap were doing a decent job of cutting off the driving lanes, and Jennings especially was looking to dish most of the night. All he had to do was help a little to make sure the dish didn't go to the big down low, but instead he was getting himself trapped in the middle of the key while his guy assasinated the Jazz from the back side.

That is a very fixable problem though, and once he gets comfortable playing with a unit, which he hasn't really had a chance to do this season, it won't be as big of a problem.

Anyways, there's your "rant", hope it helps the conversation you were hoping for.

MTJazz wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

But, now for the crushing self-examining part of my diatribe. I've wavered on this, myself. But, I don't think DC is ready to start in the NBA! I love his energy and all-out style of play. But, as much chaos he can throw at our opponents, it doesn't help our team defense. DC will seemingly risk his life to stop an opponent from hitting a three-- but, it doesn't help us if he leaves his man open for a layup or an easy rebound. DC is a great weapon we can use, but someone needs to get him focused.

Couldn't disagree with this more. The results speak for themselves, the ONLY reason the Jazz where in a position ot blow this game was because the starting unit came out and played some D for the first time in ages. They were I cold to start the third bu tit didn't hurt them cause they got stops.

Wow, Mag, you completely ignored my first two paragraphs and then went on a poorly spelled rant that was off-base! Please re-examine your post and the game we're talking about. I was right on, and you, well, you seem to be crazy. I had a lot of respect for you, but that is waning. Look at what I said. It was accurate. Someone else chime in-- it's an important discussion for Jazz fans. If this is supposed to be a serious fan forum, it's got to be serious and objective.

And, if I'm not welcome on this site, I will leave. Just let me know.

St. Lou, I don't think Mags diatribe was over the top, but guessing from the spelling maybe a little adult beverage fueled. As far as I'm concerned your input on this board is solid and valued. I see both sides of this "argument". DC is an unknown quantity as a starter this year because in his first start he got all of 14 minutes of PT. As evidenced in the Milwaukee game, DC did screw up in some critical moments - whether this is a chronic part of his game or not, I am not convinced. All I do know is that DC is an upgrade over Marvin and should start over him. However, I still believe, and especially with how well Burks/Kanter/Favors are playing right now, that GH should be moved into the starting line-up. In my perfect world, Foye and Marvin go to the bench, DC and GH start. And regarding Foye, I posted the stats in a different thread, but he is basically neck and neck with CJ Miles in terms of points and shooting percentage in more minutes. And we all know how excited we would be right now starting CJ, right? Foye is seriously overrated, he is a one trick pony who should be used accordingly and only see extended minutes off the bench when his shot is falling and he is not guarding Kyrie Irving. DC deserves at least a dozen games starting over Marv, (if GH doesn't start instead) to see what his body of work looks like as a starter.

Corbin says he's sticking with DC for now, so the starting lineup will be Mo, Foye, DC, Millsap, and Jefferson...

Intersting fact, that group started 3 games back in december when Marvin was having knee problems, and the Jazz were 0-3 in those games. On closer look the games were @OKC, @HOU, and LAC (not the Butler game). In all of those games the Jazz BEST quarters were the 1st and 3rd (same story against Cleveland) and Demarre had a positive +/-.

So I've got high hopes for for this as long as Corbin will stick with it.

Saint Louis wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Saint Louis wrote:

But, now for the crushing self-examining part of my diatribe. I've wavered on this, myself. But, I don't think DC is ready to start in the NBA! I love his energy and all-out style of play. But, as much chaos he can throw at our opponents, it doesn't help our team defense. DC will seemingly risk his life to stop an opponent from hitting a three-- but, it doesn't help us if he leaves his man open for a layup or an easy rebound. DC is a great weapon we can use, but someone needs to get him focused.

Couldn't disagree with this more. The results speak for themselves, the ONLY reason the Jazz where in a position ot blow this game was because the starting unit came out and played some D for the first time in ages. They were I cold to start the third bu tit didn't hurt them cause they got stops.

Wow, Mag, you completely ignored my first two paragraphs and then went on a poorly spelled rant that was off-base! Please re-examine your post and the game we're talking about. I was right on, and you, well, you seem to be crazy. I had a lot of respect for you, but that is waning. Look at what I said. It was accurate. Someone else chime in-- it's an important discussion for Jazz fans. If this is supposed to be a serious fan forum, it's got to be serious and objective.

And, if I'm not welcome on this site, I will leave. Just let me know.

Interesting, interesting stuff......dont know about not being welcome here Saint. If anything it woulda been Calgary or myself before you....

Anywho, I disagree as well. Although DC cheats and somebody gets a shot off, it's VERY rarely a layup. He plays his man chest to chest and it's great. The other thing, is that he does so many other positive things, like a rebound, a steal, help defense or often a TON of tips keeping the ball alive and someone else grabs it, that his negative traits are severely outweighed by the positives he brings. Also, DC doesn't get nearly enough credit for hitting the open jumper. Which of course, Marv couldn't. And if you compare him to Marvin, well thats like comparing Stockton and Telfair. DC's stats crush Marvins.

My opinion bottom line, is that although DC has some faults, he's only going to get better with those few, and his positives he brings completely outweigh the neg.

TheMagnus wrote:

Corbin says he's sticking with DC for now, so the starting lineup will be Mo, Foye, DC, Millsap, and Jefferson...

Intersting fact, that group started 3 games back in december when Marvin was having knee problems, and the Jazz were 0-3 in those games. On closer look the games were @OKC, @HOU, and LAC (not the Butler game). In all of those games the Jazz BEST quarters were the 1st and 3rd (same story against Cleveland) and Demarre had a positive +/-.

So I've got high hopes for for this as long as Corbin will stick with it.

Genius, that Tyrone, genius.
Anyway, I like that starting unit. I would not have a problem with Burks starting instead of Foye. But with Mo having the ability to drive and dish, Foye will look better now.

On the other hand, the lineup with Burks/GH/Foye has shown to be extremely successful. What I imagine seeing, is a burst with that lineup, and then depending on matchups, a finishing 5 of Mo/Gordo/DC(or Burks depending)/Paul and Al or Fav. It's a great scoring and defending lineup.

And hey, maybe now that Corbin had his eyelids peeled back, we'll see this team do something nice, like win the next two. Shockingly.

Here's a new angle for criticism of Ty Corbin's game management skills...

Kurt Kragthorpe wrote:

Factoring in last week’s overtime loss to Boston, there’s a more consistent thread to these defeats: Jazz coach Tyrone Corbin’s mismanagement of Gordon Hayward.

Corbin likes having Hayward on the court in the fourth quarter — and who wouldn’t? But the pattern of Hayward’s playing time creates a problem. Because he’s not starting Hayward, Corbin sends him into the game midway through the third quarter. That means Hayward is playing about 17 consecutive minutes — or more, in overtime games.

There’s an extra media timeout in the fourth quarter, which mitigates that long stretch. But it’s evident that fatigue inevitably affects Hayward, who recently missed 10 games with a shoulder injury. If not for wearing down at the end, Hayward may have made the shots he missed against Boston, defended better in overtime at Milwaukee and finished stronger at Cleveland, where he missed a free throw and lost the ball in the last two minutes.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55972969-87/jazz-hayward-corbin-minutes.html.csp

Kragthorpe makes some decent points here, I've watched a couple games recently where I wondered if Gordon didn't look a little tired at the end of the game. Hayward is basically playing his minutes in two big 17 minute chunks, and I can tell you that even with the short timeout breaks playing 34 minutes in two halves really is tougher than playing 34 minutes in 4 chunks with longer rests in between.

I remember when AK was coming of the bench Sloan would either not use him at all in the third quarter and then put him in with 8-10 minutes left in the 4th or he would use him in the third and pull him with 6-7 minutes left in the game (usually right before or during a media timeout) and then put him back in for the last 4-5 minutes. Seems to me like that (the second thing, not the first) might be a good strategy with Hayward.

Yea, just more of the same from Corbin, not knowing how to properly coach a team. It's been Corbin's fault all year.

Whats interesting is all the comments at the bottom of the article. Every single post on there is exactly what has been said in here. It's sad really. What potential this team had this year.

Another side to the "Fire Ty" chants that are echoing through Jazz Nation .....

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=24326299&nid=304&title=jazz-problems-much-bigger-than-the-head-coach&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-16

I think most of the authors reasons that it's not Ty's fault are just a bunch of crappy excuses, but it's still fair to hear different sides of the story.

I mean, how do you apologize for something like this ...
"There was the game against Chicago on Feb. 8 where he designed a play out of a timeout believing the Jazz were down by four points when they were actually down just three."

And in my opinion, comments like this one are B.S. as well....
Before their recent slide Ty Corbin had this team percentage points away from sixth in the Western Conference. Did you expect any better than that this season?
.... because I would say that the team was in 6th DESPITE Corbin, not because of him.

I don't see how the author can say that you can't blame the coach for players not making plays, but then says that Corbin should be given credit when they win.

zero24gravity wrote:

Another side to the "Fire Ty" chants that are echoing through Jazz Nation .....

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=24326299&nid=304&title=jazz-problems-much-bigger-than-the-head-coach&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-16

I think most of the authors reasons that it's not Ty's fault are just a bunch of crappy excuses, but it's still fair to hear different sides of the story.

I mean, how do you apologize for something like this ...
"There was the game against Chicago on Feb. 8 where he designed a play out of a timeout believing the Jazz were down by four points when they were actually down just three."

And in my opinion, comments like this one are B.S. as well....
Before their recent slide Ty Corbin had this team percentage points away from sixth in the Western Conference. Did you expect any better than that this season?
.... because I would say that the team was in 6th DESPITE Corbin, not because of him.

I don't see how the author can say that you can't blame the coach for players not making plays, but then says that Corbin should be given credit when they win.

Agree Zero. That literally sounds like a family member of Corbins wrote it.

And to say this team has a lack of talent, is a slap to the face again, to these guys. I mean look at what Kanter and Burks have been doing. Lack of talent? Please, thats garbage. Gordo/Al/Paul/Fav all extremely talented. And now Mo. Please.
Guy says how great all the other teams are with their stars and Utah just doesn't have one. Memphis/Denver? Nope. It's just one more excuse for Corbin.

Theres one glaring thorn in the foot of this team: Corbin; it all comes back to Corbin. And have you noticed, not one time has he ever taken credit for a loss? All the best coaches say it, even if it's not true. Not Tyrone.

Was it just me or did DC lose alittle bit of that chip when he started and marv found it? Crazy stuff happens with a little change one gets happy other is playing with more fire? We cant lose that fire DC has when he comes in so lets give it say 2 minutes then bring in the manimail! Just not enough time for all are bigs.Gm missed the boat by not moving one or two of the best guys in the league. Thats right i think both guys are super nice but we dont have room and it will cost us the playoffs as much as anything? Corbin has em he'll play them. to bad TY is a nice guy and wants to win but not hurt anyones feeling while doing it. Some of this needs to go onto the GMs of this team. I'm on record to not sign Al or Paul. We need to have a big turn over next year sign trades but we all know Favors Kanter are the starters of this team next year and the GMs need to see to it!!!! If not i really dont think i can watch much more of this next year?