20 games in: The State of Jazz Nation

Mutangclan wrote:

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Living inside a box score built house of cards? Cute son but out here in the real world we watch games.

Miles was rarely set up for wide open shots and we ran few sets for him. Hayward gets every opportunity he is ready to take and is the worst wide open shooter the Jazz have played significant minutes in probably a decade, if not more. Miles ability to make something out of broken plays made him the far superior player at the respective stage in his career.

Who is this talking about CJ Miles and ANYONE in the same breath?? You just arguing just to argue?? Weird.......CJ Miles, hands down was the worst player on this team since I became a fan in 1986. He got more opportunities to show that he actually could help the team, and consistently didn't. His only skill, ONLY, was every once in awhile he would get hot outside. Other than that, he got lost more on defense than anyone ever has. He couldn't figure out why they called fouls on him, never saw an open man, couldn't at 6'7 couldn't rebound to save his life and consistently for his entire tenure in Utah, was inconsistent......except for his constant bordering on "fair" ability. On top of that, he worsened it all by being cocky and arrogant, acting as if everyone was keeping him down. Which is why in Cleveland now, Byron Scott also isn't playing him.

Hayward on the other hand by year two showed everything else needed in a basketball player, that CJ never could figure out: rebounding, defense, looking for the open player, taking a good shot vs bad, and most apparent when compared to CJ, he didn't lose his man. In a short 3 years, Hayward as far surpassed CJ's, what, 7 years in Utah. He is 3x the player already, and will only get better.
I said it for years that CJ should go. Just as strongly, Hayward should, and will stay.

I see what's going on here. Blame the black man for everything while making excuses for the white kid. Hayward can't hit a jumper like Shaquille can't shoot free throws. Can't dribble can't pass. There's only one reason you can't see the truth.

B. Liberation wrote:

I see what's going on here. Blame the black man for everything while making excuses for the white kid. Hayward can't hit a jumper like Shaquille can't shoot free throws. Can't dribble can't pass. There's only one reason you can't see the truth.

snore. Seriously, that all you got? Try out a different shtick, one that is at least above an overplayed race card. Boring.

TheMagnus wrote:

thejazzkickazz wrote:

Responding to this Professo_Sloan troll is much more tedious than responding to Calgary. I can't imagine why you are doing it. Must be a boring Monday evening, Mr. Magnus.

Sometimes it's fun to play with the trolls. I find probing around the recesses of their various psyches and watching their facades crumble very fascinating, I guess that's probably just me though. The difference between the Professo and the Calgary is that Calgary doesn't have a facade, that's actually who he is.

I don't know who this Calgary fellow is, but he sounds fascinating. FWIW, Gordon > Chucker > Science > Your Opinion

MTJazz wrote:

B. Liberation wrote:

I see what's going on here. Blame the black man for everything while making excuses for the white kid. Hayward can't hit a jumper like Shaquille can't shoot free throws. Can't dribble can't pass. There's only one reason you can't see the truth.

snore. Seriously, that all you got? Try out a different shtick, one that is at least above an overplayed race card. Boring.

Yes, of course Liberation, why discuss a sport and your knowledge of it (or lack of) when instead you can just waste time and space. Good call.

B. Liberation wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Living inside a box score built house of cards? Cute son but out here in the real world we watch games.

Miles was rarely set up for wide open shots and we ran few sets for him. Hayward gets every opportunity he is ready to take and is the worst wide open shooter the Jazz have played significant minutes in probably a decade, if not more. Miles ability to make something out of broken plays made him the far superior player at the respective stage in his career.

Who is this talking about CJ Miles and ANYONE in the same breath?? You just arguing just to argue?? Weird.......CJ Miles, hands down was the worst player on this team since I became a fan in 1986. He got more opportunities to show that he actually could help the team, and consistently didn't. His only skill, ONLY, was every once in awhile he would get hot outside. Other than that, he got lost more on defense than anyone ever has. He couldn't figure out why they called fouls on him, never saw an open man, couldn't at 6'7 couldn't rebound to save his life and consistently for his entire tenure in Utah, was inconsistent......except for his constant bordering on "fair" ability. On top of that, he worsened it all by being cocky and arrogant, acting as if everyone was keeping him down. Which is why in Cleveland now, Byron Scott also isn't playing him.

Hayward on the other hand by year two showed everything else needed in a basketball player, that CJ never could figure out: rebounding, defense, looking for the open player, taking a good shot vs bad, and most apparent when compared to CJ, he didn't lose his man. In a short 3 years, Hayward as far surpassed CJ's, what, 7 years in Utah. He is 3x the player already, and will only get better.
I said it for years that CJ should go. Just as strongly, Hayward should, and will stay.

I see what's going on here. Blame the black man for everything while making excuses for the white kid. Hayward can't hit a jumper like Shaquille can't shoot free throws. Can't dribble can't pass. There's only one reason you can't see the truth.

It is pretty easy to see this guys game sad in these days that this kind of stuff still goes on the guy is a very shallow person full of hate from what it seems will start to look over anything he has to say going forward.

MTJazz wrote:

snore. Seriously, that all you got? Try out a different shtick, one that is at least above an overplayed race card. Boring.

Sorry man I guess I let my best get the better of me tryin to do my civic duty and all bringing a little clarity of thought. I know this nation isn't ready to have the discussion on latent racism so don't know why I even bother.

Anyway, you're a Jazz fan so when you get a hankering for a mean game of miniature golf then holler. First round's on me.

The Jazz have a history of bad Decembers. I think our win in LA puts a big plus on our side-- at least we beat the Lakers.

I think one of our problems for this year is that there are established teams who are already beating us (OKC, SA, LAC, and MEM), AND a bunch of teams that may get better as the season goes on (Minny, DAL, DEN, LAL, and even GS, SAC, and HOU!). Minny has Rubio coming back soon, Kevin Love isn't quite at 100%, and they have solid depth at every position. DAL has been hanging in without Dirk, and, once Dirk is back, they will be much better. Denver, like the Jazz, are still trying to fit their players together in their best rotations-- and, they'll probably do it. The Lakers will eventually have Pao Gasol, Nash (and Blake) back-- that's a lot of fire power. GS isn't solely relying on Steph Curry for their success-- Lee has been impressive, and Jarret Jack is the best backup PG in the league (they also have the possibility of adding Bogut, who, if healthy, can crush any other team's inside game). SAC probably won't get much better, but, if they stay healthy, they have a team that can compete every night. Houston has the weirdest combination of possible success I have ever seen-- if Jeremy Lin and Harden can play together, their supporting cast is solid enough to beat the elite.

I didn't even talk about Portland! Damn, the West is tough. If we were in the East we would have a shot at a top five spot (IMO).

B. Liberation wrote:

MTJazz wrote:

snore. Seriously, that all you got? Try out a different shtick, one that is at least above an overplayed race card. Boring.

Sorry man I guess I let my best get the better of me tryin to do my civic duty and all bringing a little clarity of thought. I know this nation isn't ready to have the discussion on latent racism so don't know why I even bother.

Anyway, you're a Jazz fan so when you get a hankering for a mean game of miniature golf then holler. First round's on me.

Oh yes, of course.....civic duty.

Since this is a sports forum, why dont you try to talk sports. There are plenty of political sites, with all sorts of people who try and make out their narrow-minded opinions to be more than what they are.....but sounds like your'e leaving. Nice, see ya.

Mutangclan wrote:

[ Which is why in Cleveland now, Byron Scott also isn't playing him.

are you sure about that? Today he played 37 min and helped Cavs beat Lakers. 28pts, 5reb, 5 made threes, not to shabby. Double digit scoring in last 4 games.

Mutangclan wrote:

Oh yes, of course.....civic duty.

Since this is a sports forum, why dont you try to talk sports. There are plenty of political sites, with all sorts of people who try and make out their narrow-minded opinions to be more than what they are.....but sounds like your'e leaving. Nice, see ya.

Be cool man. We ain't building facebook pages and google searches and advertising on Real GM and at miniature golf courses so you can run all the new posters off. I ain't big on banning people or deleting posts but am not afraid to do it if necessary. You've been warned.

Mutangclan wrote:

Now that Hayward has shown a real niche in the second unit and with Tinsley especially, I like Marv still starting. But I'd like to see DC start along side him, and bring Foye off with Hayward and Fav. Seems thats a much better fit and balance. And how absolutely terrible Foyes defense is, we can put him in the game and ride him if he's on, sit him if he's not. With Marv starting and shooting, having DC in there for his D and hustle is a great start with the 1st unit. I much prefer starting a game off with hustle and tenacious D, verses sending someone in to hopefully bring that once it's already needed. If you start off that way, it tends to stick. Last DC was one of the biggest reasons this team pushed for the playoffs, then Corbin STUPIDLY thought Josh Howard was the answer (epic fail). With DC also hitting the 3, we aren't necessarily loses that option by starting him over Foye.

I like your idea of starting Demarre and Marvin, and bringing Foye off the bench with Hayward and Fav. Makes geat sense to me for most games!!!

But with Ginobili still likely coming off the bench for the Spurs tonight, trying this change against the Spurs might not be best. Maybe we want Carroll on Ginobili? Go Jazz!!!

Calgary Jazz wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

[ Which is why in Cleveland now, Byron Scott also isn't playing him.

are you sure about that? Today he played 37 min and helped Cavs beat Lakers. 28pts, 5reb, 5 made threes, not to shabby. Double digit scoring in last 4 games.

By all means Calgary, go ahead and get on the CJ Miles bandwagon. As a self-proclaimed Objective Expert, I'm sure you can see the future he has, and just needs a chance. Like give him 7 years or something....he'll come around.

B. Liberation wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Oh yes, of course.....civic duty.

Since this is a sports forum, why dont you try to talk sports. There are plenty of political sites, with all sorts of people who try and make out their narrow-minded opinions to be more than what they are.....but sounds like your'e leaving. Nice, see ya.

Be cool man. We ain't building facebook pages and google searches and advertising on Real GM and at miniature golf courses so you can run all the new posters off. I ain't big on banning people or deleting posts but am not afraid to do it if necessary. You've been warned.

Uh, ok.

Look, simple concept: Utah Jazz/Sports Forum = Sports Discussion. Try and wrap your brain around that, then come up with your game plan, and execute. Plenty before have accomplished this; you can too.

Crunchtime1 wrote:

Mutangclan wrote:

Now that Hayward has shown a real niche in the second unit and with Tinsley especially, I like Marv still starting. But I'd like to see DC start along side him, and bring Foye off with Hayward and Fav. Seems thats a much better fit and balance. And how absolutely terrible Foyes defense is, we can put him in the game and ride him if he's on, sit him if he's not. With Marv starting and shooting, having DC in there for his D and hustle is a great start with the 1st unit. I much prefer starting a game off with hustle and tenacious D, verses sending someone in to hopefully bring that once it's already needed. If you start off that way, it tends to stick. Last DC was one of the biggest reasons this team pushed for the playoffs, then Corbin STUPIDLY thought Josh Howard was the answer (epic fail). With DC also hitting the 3, we aren't necessarily loses that option by starting him over Foye.

I like your idea of starting Demarre and Marvin, and bringing Foye off the bench with Hayward and Fav. Makes geat sense to me for most games!!!

But with Ginobili still likely coming off the bench for the Spurs tonight, trying this change against the Spurs might not be best. Maybe we want Carroll on Ginobili? Go Jazz!!!

Sure, trying something new against the Spurs is probably recipe for disaster. However, Ginobili is going to play starter minutes, and DC and Hayward are going to have to guard him. But I think some continuity built with that starting 5 would be great, and needs to start asap. DC added to that unit creates a nice offensive and defensive balance. On the other side of it, if Foye is now with the second unit and Hayward and Favors, it's perfect. Foye outside gives room for Fav, and with Gordo driving and slashing he has a dump off to Fav or can find Foye spotting up outside. Really like both units that way verses now.

TheMagnus wrote:

Speaking of the next few games, the schedule through the end of the year is BRUTAL. After Toronto at home tomorrow this is the Jazz schedule for the rest of 2012...

@Lakers - W
Spurs - W
@Suns - L
Memphis - L
@Nets - W
@Pacers - L
@Heat - L
@Magic - W
Warriors
Clippers
@Clippers

Only 2 of those 11 teams have losing records, and the Jazz play both of those teams on the road. If the Jazz finnish the year .500 or better it will be because they have massively improved their play, as strange as that sounds. One way or another, at the end of the year we should have a good idea if the Jazz can play with other playoff teams on the road.

Well, here we are, just finished the pre-Christmas road trip 2-2, and as ugly as the two losses were, coming away with two wins is more than most of us expected, and overall have played .500 ball through one of the most brutal stretches of the entire season. With three games against two really good teams remaining, finishing the year at or above .500 continues to be the hope and expectation.

Overall it is not as bad as it seems, but games like the last few really get the wheels of restlessness turning. I feel like there is momentum building to make a move and clear out some of the vets, where I haven't really felt that before.

Interesting stat of the day for all of you Jazz fans looking for a little optimism in the new year...

Right now the Jazz have played 29 games and are 15-14. They have only played 11 of those 29 games at home and as of today their strength of Schedule is hovering right around .500, which is pretty close to where it will be at the end of the season.

That lends itself to some simple math projections. The Jazz have won 82% of their games at home, and 33% of their games on the road, if you project that out for the full season you get a final home record of 34-8, and a road record of 14-28, for a total record of 48-34, which isn't too shabby.

Conclusion: A little luck (guide us Jamaal Tinsley!!!) and this is still a 50 win team.

TheMagnus wrote:

Interesting stat of the day for all of you Jazz fans looking for a little optimism in the new year...

Right now the Jazz have played 29 games and are 15-14. They have only played 11 of those 29 games at home and as of today their strength of Schedule is hovering right around .500, which is pretty close to where it will be at the end of the season.

That lends itself to some simple math projections. The Jazz have won 82% of their games at home, and 33% of their games on the road, if you project that out for the full season you get a final home record of 34-8, and a road record of 14-28, for a total record of 48-34, which isn't too shabby.

Conclusion: A little luck (guide us Jamaal Tinsley!!!) and this is still a 50 win team.

That is interesting. My question though, is how does an 8th seed and early playoff exit help this team? Did it help last year? As much as it pains me to watch, losing might actually help us in the long run. I'm not suggesting that we tank, because I hate teams/organizations that do that, but that we just keep on being mediocre. Let Corbin keep on making idiot substitutions, let the future continue to rot on the bench, and let the "vets" keep putting up worthless stats. I'll take a few years in the crapper in order to get any kind of change going. I'm sitting at 30 years of status quo, and I just don't think I can take it anymore.

TroutBum wrote:

That is interesting. My question though, is how does an 8th seed and early playoff exit help this team? Did it help last year? As much as it pains me to watch, losing might actually help us in the long run. I'm not suggesting that we tank, because I hate teams/organizations that do that, but that we just keep on being mediocre. Let Corbin keep on making idiot substitutions, let the future continue to rot on the bench, and let the "vets" keep putting up worthless stats. I'll take a few years in the crapper in order to get any kind of change going. I'm sitting at 30 years of status quo, and I just don't think I can take it anymore.

I hear you, Trout. I think there is a fan groundswell to let the young dogs run and see what happens - I'm not convinced they would deliver worse results than the expiring or near-expiring vets. I think both Kanter and Burks are being woefully underplayed, and while not a young dog, DC as well. we won't know the top end on Burks and Kanter until we see more game time out of them to make a fair call.

TroutBum wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Interesting stat of the day for all of you Jazz fans looking for a little optimism in the new year...

Right now the Jazz have played 29 games and are 15-14. They have only played 11 of those 29 games at home and as of today their strength of Schedule is hovering right around .500, which is pretty close to where it will be at the end of the season.

That lends itself to some simple math projections. The Jazz have won 82% of their games at home, and 33% of their games on the road, if you project that out for the full season you get a final home record of 34-8, and a road record of 14-28, for a total record of 48-34, which isn't too shabby.

Conclusion: A little luck (guide us Jamaal Tinsley!!!) and this is still a 50 win team.

That is interesting. My question though, is how does an 8th seed and early playoff exit help this team? Did it help last year? As much as it pains me to watch, losing might actually help us in the long run. I'm not suggesting that we tank, because I hate teams/organizations that do that, but that we just keep on being mediocre. Let Corbin keep on making idiot substitutions, let the future continue to rot on the bench, and let the "vets" keep putting up worthless stats. I'll take a few years in the crapper in order to get any kind of change going. I'm sitting at 30 years of status quo, and I just don't think I can take it anymore.

Well, given where the team is now I'd say making the playoffs would be a good thing. I mean, if they don't it's not like they are going to win the lottery, even if they trade all of the vets the young guys are good enough to win enough games to keep the Jazz picking in double digits, there's already 7 teams they aint gonna catch in a race to the bottom. So might as well maintain the culture and expectation that the Jazz are a franchise that goes to the playoffs, and anything less is a failure. Period.

I think the change is already under way, and I don't have too much of a problem with the Jazz strategy of trying to maintain a culture of winning while they build for the future. But if this slide keeps up for too much longer this season I would expect the Jazz to make some aggressive moves with an eye towards the future.

The truly sad thing right now is that MT is absolutely right, playing the young guys would likely make the Jazz better both now and later, especially if it meant playing Foye, Watson, and Tinsley less.

One thing thats coinciding with the Jazz slide, is DC getting no play again.....

Mutangclan wrote:

One thing thats coinciding with the Jazz slide, is DC getting no play again.....

Exactly, couldn't agree more.