Rumors, rumors, rumors

Lets get it started.

Josh Smith Atlanta for Milsap, Bell and worst of the two 1st round picks this year. I think we past Golden State at the end so this would be Golden States pick. We take on 13 million and give up 12 million and the pick.

I think this trade happens only if Atlanta allows us to negotiate with josh's agent and get a deal done. I like what Josh brings at the 3 spot while he backs up Favors at the 4 spot.

I know alot don't like Smith's attitude, but he is an ALL-STAR caliber player.

I also know we all love Milsap, me included, but this has to get done.

Jazz Dog wrote:

Lets get it started.

Josh Smith Atlanta for Milsap, Bell and worst of the two 1st round picks this year. I think we past Golden State at the end so this would be Golden States pick. We take on 13 million and give up 12 million and the pick.

I think this trade happens only if Atlanta allows us to negotiate with josh's agent and get a deal done. I like what Josh brings at the 3 spot while he backs up Favors at the 4 spot.

I know alot don't like Smith's attitude, but he is an ALL-STAR caliber player.

I also know we all love Milsap, me included, but this has to get done.

Smith isn't signing an extention, neither is Millsap, so it's basically just a swap for expiring contracts and Bird Rights, and we'd probably have to sweeten the deal with young talent (Burks) AND draft picks to get it done, AND Smith probably wouldn't stay unless the Jazz gave him Max or near Max money... so ya, I'm going to call this one a non-starter.

That why he hasn't been moved already, nobody is giving up lottery picks and talent (which is what Atlanta wants) for a half year rental with no guarantees.

This is the consequence of the change to the way extentions work, it basically ensures that palyers in their prime who are underpaid (or think they are underpaid) will become free agents. It's why guys like Millsap and Smith (and to a lesser extent Jefferson) have seriously diminished trade value, they simply won't sign an extention, no matter who trades for them, so you buy at your own risk.

Smith is great, I'd love to have him, but he's not worth Max money, and he's not worth Millsap + valuable assets. Besides, if the Jazz really did want him they can just make him a Max offer this offseason and keep the assets.

TheMagnus wrote:

This is the consequence of the change to the way extentions work, it basically ensures that palyers in their prime who are underpaid (or think they are underpaid) will become free agents. It's why guys like Millsap and Smith (and to a lesser extent Jefferson) have seriously diminished trade value, they simply won't sign an extention, no matter who trades for them, so you buy at your own risk.

Doesn't it simply boil down to players with expirings either want to continue playing with their current team for some negotiated salary vs. being neutral on that and instead hoping for a major pay-day on the FA market? I think with Al and Sap they wouldn't mind playing for the Jazz at all but also realize the Jazz won't "overpay" whereas there are plenty of teams that will. Smith clearly wants gone from Atlanta.

Mags I ususally agree with you but this time we are on opposite ends. I think Jefferson and Milsap would resign with the Jazz but we don't want that. We need to move one of them for a PG or small forward. Smith is not going to sign with Atlanta, it doesn't mean he won't resign with another contender who is willing to give him a opportunity to compete. I would pay him in the 15 million range as well. for four years. I do think that Atlanta will take Milsap and a 1st rounder for Smith because there is nothing for them to lose. Milsap is from that area of the woods and if you look at their team it would be a good fit.

Defensively I would like our team if I had my way.

Jefferson
Favors
Smith
Carroll
Williams

that is a good defensive team. Jefferson is a volume rebounder who doesn't defend well but Favors, Smith and Carroll would bring the heat.

MTJazz wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

This is the consequence of the change to the way extentions work, it basically ensures that palyers in their prime who are underpaid (or think they are underpaid) will become free agents. It's why guys like Millsap and Smith (and to a lesser extent Jefferson) have seriously diminished trade value, they simply won't sign an extention, no matter who trades for them, so you buy at your own risk.

Doesn't it simply boil down to players with expirings either want to continue playing with their current team for some negotiated salary vs. being neutral on that and instead hoping for a major pay-day on the FA market? I think with Al and Sap they wouldn't mind playing for the Jazz at all but also realize the Jazz won't "overpay" whereas there are plenty of teams that will. Smith clearly wants gone from Atlanta.

No, because there are limitations on what teams can offer as an extention to a contract. Extentions can only be 4 years total including the years currently on their contract (meaning this year counts) and are limited to a yearly change in value of +/- 7% of their current salary. So what that means is that even for players who are currently payed close to their value like Smith and Jefferson, signing an extention costs them a year on what is probably the most lucrative contract they will ever sign. For players like Millsap who are worth more than what they are making now it's even worse, the most the Jazz (or anybody else) could offer him on an extention is 3 years for 28 Million total.

For a player (or rather a players agent) who knows the game is a buisness (like they all do), and has skills that are in demand around the league, signing an extention that limits the size of the contract so severely when you are at the apex of your ability (and therefore your value) is pretty much the least attractive option. At that point in thier career they are (as they should be) looking for the Maximum total number of guranteed dollars that they can get, and with the current rules being what they are the only time they can really do that is when they become a free agents.

So, I think it is wrong to assume that just because a player in his prime is unwilling to sign and extention that they want to leave. They may or may not want to leave, but that is probably totally seperate from the issue of an extention.

I'm going to predict (somebody bookmark this page so we can come back to it) that we are going to see the other side of this coin next year, trade rumors are going to be flying again, and Jazz fans are going to have a major freak out.

We have young palyers on rookie contracts that we can extend up to 5 years and the Max salary (different rules for rookie contract vs vet contracts), but if the Jazz past behavior and statements are any indication they are going to bargain hard and it is very likely they will NOT extend Hayward or Favors by the teim the deadline (December I think) to do so passes. Immediately the speculation will begin on whether or not the Jazz intend to trade one or both of them rather than lose them in the offseason, Jazz fans will lose their minds wondering how KOC could screw that up so bad, all the while forgetting that they will be restricted free agents with bird rights, meaning the Jazz can keep them regardless, and whole reason we hoarded cap space was for this very scenario.

Jazz Dog wrote:

Mags I ususally agree with you but this time we are on opposite ends. I think Jefferson and Milsap would resign with the Jazz but we don't want that. We need to move one of them for a PG or small forward. Smith is not going to sign with Atlanta, it doesn't mean he won't resign with another contender who is willing to give him a opportunity to compete. I would pay him in the 15 million range as well. for four years. I do think that Atlanta will take Milsap and a 1st rounder for Smith because there is nothing for them to lose. Milsap is from that area of the woods and if you look at their team it would be a good fit.

Defensively I would like our team if I had my way.

Jefferson
Favors
Smith
Carroll
Williams

that is a good defensive team. Jefferson is a volume rebounder who doesn't defend well but Favors, Smith and Carroll would bring the heat.

So what you are saying with Smith at 15+ million a year for 4+ years, and Jefferson at 15+ million a year for 4+ years, is that those two guys will be the core of the Jazz team you envision going forward?

Ya, we definitely have a difference of opinion on that, that is not what I want at all.

I dont think ATL trades for Millsap anyway. They've said all along they want a Center, and thats because Horford is tired of playing an undersized C, and desperately wants to play PF. Insert Al Jefferson, that would be what they want anyway, Al on the left block, Horford on the right.

Now for the Jazz, take out Marv, insert Josh......let that marinate.....



Mo
Foye
Josh
Millsap
Favors........best front line in the league, no question

Bench, Gordo/Burks/Marv/JT/Kanter........

Thats scary good. MONEY defensive team too. However, Josh isn't a max player to me either. He is probably worth more than Paul I'd say, like at 11/12per. I also said Paul is worth 10 per though so.....

We're going to lose Al for nothing other than cap space. ATL has said they dont want to trade him within the conference. This is a situation that works for both teams, and both teams playoff runs. I'd rather take a run at Josh for the rest of this year, hope for a worked out new contract and can you imagine all those blocked shots!!!??? On a Utah team!!! Swat Lake City on STEROIDS!! That would put us as the team that NO ONE wants to see in the playoffs too...

I think my neighbor's wife is having an affair with the mailman.

Oops. wrong kind of rumor.

I heard from a very reliable source that the Jazz are taking phone calls and looking at every option to "improve" or "stockpile assets".
I also heard from the same very reliable source "no comment".

Mags,

I might have mistyped my thoughts. I beleive our future would be the four young guns and Smith. I don't think Smith is worth the max contract but he is worth in my opinion 15 million per year. I think Smith would be a solid citizen here in Utah. We all love Milsap but Jefferson fits this team better, I would resign Jefferson for what we can but not for what he gets now. If he expects a raise like Boozer than he'll be moving on.

Atlanta is not going to get a top flight center for Smith, there are none out there. From my internal non committal sources Jefferson is not on the block, we have Bell, Watson Tinsley, Evans, Tomic and Milsap available and that is it. I'm also told that Jazz brass love what Burks is giving them so far, he will not be moved.

Jazz Dog wrote:

Mags,

I might have mistyped my thoughts. I beleive our future would be the four young guns and Smith. I don't think Smith is worth the max contract but he is worth in my opinion 15 million per year. I think Smith would be a solid citizen here in Utah. We all love Milsap but Jefferson fits this team better, I would resign Jefferson for what we can but not for what he gets now. If he expects a raise like Boozer than he'll be moving on.

Atlanta is not going to get a top flight center for Smith, there are none out there. From my internal non committal sources Jefferson is not on the block, we have Bell, Watson Tinsley, Evans, Tomic and Milsap available and that is it. I'm also told that Jazz brass love what Burks is giving them so far, he will not be moved.

I like the sounds of that. Thanks JD

Jazz Dog wrote:

Mags,

I might have mistyped my thoughts. I beleive our future would be the four young guns and Smith. I don't think Smith is worth the max contract but he is worth in my opinion 15 million per year. I think Smith would be a solid citizen here in Utah. We all love Milsap but Jefferson fits this team better, I would resign Jefferson for what we can but not for what he gets now. If he expects a raise like Boozer than he'll be moving on.

Atlanta is not going to get a top flight center for Smith, there are none out there. From my internal non committal sources Jefferson is not on the block, we have Bell, Watson Tinsley, Evans, Tomic and Milsap available and that is it. I'm also told that Jazz brass love what Burks is giving them so far, he will not be moved.

I'll give you that Millsap for Smith makes some sense if you peg him as a SF, but I still dissagree that he's worth Millsap + a assets/picks. Mutangs proposed Jefferson for Smith swap straight up makes much more sense in pretty much every way. But that is still a short term move, with an eye on contending in the playoffs this year, and no guarantees that Smith stays.

I'm not going to get into the Jefferson v. Millsap argument again, I could (and have) hammered the hell out of that and everybody knows where I stand, Millsap over Jefferson is a no-brainer for me.

I don't know why anybody would think Jefferson isn't on the block, I think in the eyes of Jazz management everyone can be had for the right price. Everything I have heard and seen suggests every expiring contract the Jazz have is available to make a deal, but at the same time the only guy the Jazz are actively shopping is Bell.

I also don't hold Smith in the high regard that others seem to.

From a purely subjective standpoint Smith has been unpredictable both on and off the court. He's had career long issues with poor shot selection and conflict with coaches on the court, and has a reputation for taking those things off the court to the media. He's been the cornerstone of his team for several years now, and had some really quality talent around him, and the results have not been that different than what the Jazz have done over the same stretch.

From an analytical standpoint I'm hard pressed to find anything that shows he's better than Millsap, which means in the long term trading one for the other is little more than a sideways move. I'm not kidding about that, and I know stats aren't everything and Smiths value as one of the elite defenders in the NBA can't be overlooked, but neither can this...

[career] http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=millspa01&y1=2013&p2=smithjo03&y2=2013

or this...

[2012-2013]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=millspa01&y1=2013&p2=smithjo03&y2=2013

or this...

http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?id=629&year=2011-2012

vs. this...

http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2011-2012&id=94

I've got more, but it all just repeats the same story. So while I would love to have Smith, especially as a SF, I don't think he's worth $15 million a year, especially if you are going ot argue that Millsap is only worth $10 mil.

I think looking at the entire Jazz team and mostly with Favors and Kanter who both do or can play Center and are ready for big minutes, it makes complete sense to keep Paul. Everybody loves him, he does it all on the court, and with the team make up now, any of the views of Paul as undersized are mitigated by Favors shotblocking/defense/athleticism. Also, going away from Al, would completely change the type of team we have, from a slow halfcourt team, to an athletic slashing move the ball type team. And with guys like Gordo/Paul/Burks/Favors, that type of offense is extremely well suited.

Now, whats our biggest complaint on this Jazz team right now? Its getting nothing from the small forward spot, and Al's defensive liabilities and low post offense that while productive also freezes out everyone else basically. Know what fixes both those problems? Al for Smith. Favors at C, Josh at SF. We get a massive influx of defense, athleticism and ability to finish at the rim, so uptick in FG%.
Only detraction I can see, is the chemistry. Everybody gets along, loves Al. But you know, there is a ZERO % chance of a Jazz championship this year. I'd really really like to see a move for Josh Smith, get him in here, I believe it would be 100% successful, as Josh played with a real, structured team for the first time ever, AND there would be success. Then an attempt to work out a good contract with he and Paul both.
At worst, we lose Josh after the season for good, just like we'd lose Al after the season. Jazz are in the same spot regardless.

Mutangclan wrote:

I think looking at the entire Jazz team and mostly with Favors and Kanter who both do or can play Center and are ready for big minutes, it makes complete sense to keep Paul. Everybody loves him, he does it all on the court, and with the team make up now, any of the views of Paul as undersized are mitigated by Favors shotblocking/defense/athleticism. Also, going away from Al, would completely change the type of team we have, from a slow halfcourt team, to an athletic slashing move the ball type team. And with guys like Gordo/Paul/Burks/Favors, that type of offense is extremely well suited.

Now, whats our biggest complaint on this Jazz team right now? Its getting nothing from the small forward spot, and Al's defensive liabilities and low post offense that while productive also freezes out everyone else basically. Know what fixes both those problems? Al for Smith. Favors at C, Josh at SF. We get a massive influx of defense, athleticism and ability to finish at the rim, so uptick in FG%.
Only detraction I can see, is the chemistry. Everybody gets along, loves Al. But you know, there is a ZERO % chance of a Jazz championship this year. I'd really really like to see a move for Josh Smith, get him in here, I believe it would be 100% successful, as Josh played with a real, structured team for the first time ever, AND there would be success. Then an attempt to work out a good contract with he and Paul both.
At worst, we lose Josh after the season for good, just like we'd lose Al after the season. Jazz are in the same spot regardless.

I think I've said this before, and I actually do think that Smith would make some good sense, but wasn't the comment about him playing in a structured offense the exact same thing that many said about Josh's old teamate Marv? And we all know that Marv seems to have gotten even worse offensively in this "structure". May or may not be that same situation, but it's worth considering.

Hah, yea. I think I actually was the one that said it.

But, this year with Teague I think is the first year that there has been an actual PG there. Before it was all "Joe Johnson, heres the ball go score. Or look for Josh or Al". That was it. Also, Josh Smith brings more than just shooting. That'd be the biggest difference. His shooting is actually the least of his abilities. His blks/stls/rebs are up there with all the best in the league.

On this team with Paul, Fav and Smith I'd wager we would lead the league in blocks and rebounds, would contend for tops in steals and our team defense would be up there too. 95% of the championship teams over the last 20 years were up there in those categories.

I think its worth a shot if nothing else. Its time Favors gets in there permanently, Kanter has shown is more than ready to be the first big off the bench, and everybody knows Al isn't the future here. Do it now, make a splash for once, and the worst that can happen is its only for the rest of the season because they're both expiring. So still, Jazz have all the cap room.

Mutangclan wrote:

Hah, yea. I think I actually was the one that said it.

But, Josh Smith brings more than just shooting. That'd be the biggest difference. His shooting is actually the least of his abilities. His blks/stls/rebs are up there with all the best in the league.

On this team with Paul, Fav and Smith I'd wager we would lead the league in blocks and rebounds, would contend for tops in steals and our team defense would be up there too. 95% of the championship teams over the last 20 years were up there in those categories.

I think its worth a shot if nothing else. Its time Favors gets in there permanently, Kanter has shown is more than ready to be the first big off the bench, and everybody knows Al isn't the future here. Do it now, make a splash for once, and the worst that can happen is its only for the rest of the season, which was going to happen with Al anyway.

I actually like the idea of a Jefferson for Smith swap, and I honestly think that with him playing most of his minutes at SF with Kanter and Favors at C this team would be really really good.

But make no mistake, Smith is a step back on the offensive end. In fact if his offensive presence wasn't such a persistent negative over his career I'd argue that he was indeed a max money player, but even at his career best (3 years ago) he would still be the 4th or 5th best option offensively on this current Jazz team.

You guys are absolutely right to tlalk about the system thing, because his ability to work within the system would make or break his success with this team. To really maximize his value he would have to be willing to be just another cog in the engine offensively. This year his usage is over 26%, last year it was over 28%, but during his best season statistically (and, not coincidentally, the Hawks best season with him) his usage was only 22% and that is about where he would need to be to really be successfull in the Jazz system. Would he be happy with that? He wasn't before, and that was likely a factor in why Mike Woodson was fired after that season, so I think the question is debateable.

Furthermore, if the Jazz dealt for him now it is HIGLY unlikely that he would be able to learn how to REALLY work within the Jazz offense by the end of the season, so that just adds another risk factor to the equation.

Mutangclan wrote:

Hah, yea. I think I actually was the one that said it.

But, this year with Teague I think is the first year that there has been an actual PG there. Before it was all "Joe Johnson, heres the ball go score. Or look for Josh or Al". That was it. Also, Josh Smith brings more than just shooting. That'd be the biggest difference. His shooting is actually the least of his abilities. His blks/stls/rebs are up there with all the best in the league.

On this team with Paul, Fav and Smith I'd wager we would lead the league in blocks and rebounds, would contend for tops in steals and our team defense would be up there too. 95% of the championship teams over the last 20 years were up there in those categories.

I think its worth a shot if nothing else. Its time Favors gets in there permanently, Kanter has shown is more than ready to be the first big off the bench, and everybody knows Al isn't the future here. Do it now, make a splash for once, and the worst that can happen is its only for the rest of the season because they're both expiring. So still, Jazz have all the cap room.

Agreed, defense & reboudning would likely be championship caliber. But the offense would probably be more sporadic & less effective as a whole with Josh instead of Al. I wonder if that trade off would result in more wins.

TheMagnus wrote:

[You guys are absolutely right to tlalk about the system thing, because his ability to work within the system would make or break his success with this team. To really maximize his value he would have to be willing to be just another cog in the engine offensively. This year his usage is over 26%, last year it was over 28%, but during his best season statistically (and, not coincidentally, the Hawks best season with him) his usage was only 22% and that is about where he would need to be to really be successfull in the Jazz system. Would he be happy with that? He wasn't before, and that was likely a factor in why Mike Woodson was fired after that season, so I think the question is debateable.

Not to mention that if Josh accepted a lesser offensive role, than someone else (or multiple players) would be expected to step up the offense to make up for the loss of Al. Do the Jazz have the guys capable of doing that? I hope/think so, but I'm not 100% convinced.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

[You guys are absolutely right to tlalk about the system thing, because his ability to work within the system would make or break his success with this team. To really maximize his value he would have to be willing to be just another cog in the engine offensively. This year his usage is over 26%, last year it was over 28%, but during his best season statistically (and, not coincidentally, the Hawks best season with him) his usage was only 22% and that is about where he would need to be to really be successfull in the Jazz system. Would he be happy with that? He wasn't before, and that was likely a factor in why Mike Woodson was fired after that season, so I think the question is debateable.

Not to mention that if Josh accepted a lesser offensive role, than someone else (or multiple players) would be expected to step up the offense to make up for the loss of Al. Do the Jazz have the guys capable of doing that? I hope/think so, but I'm not 100% convinced.

That'd actually be the least of my worries, jefferson isn't the jazz best option right now and his usage is only about 25%, and marvins usage is so low that between favors and smith they would have it covered.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

[You guys are absolutely right to tlalk about the system thing, because his ability to work within the system would make or break his success with this team. To really maximize his value he would have to be willing to be just another cog in the engine offensively. This year his usage is over 26%, last year it was over 28%, but during his best season statistically (and, not coincidentally, the Hawks best season with him) his usage was only 22% and that is about where he would need to be to really be successfull in the Jazz system. Would he be happy with that? He wasn't before, and that was likely a factor in why Mike Woodson was fired after that season, so I think the question is debateable.

Not to mention that if Josh accepted a lesser offensive role, than someone else (or multiple players) would be expected to step up the offense to make up for the loss of Al. Do the Jazz have the guys capable of doing that? I hope/think so, but I'm not 100% convinced.

That'd actually be the least of my worries, jefferson isn't the jazz best option right now and his usage is only about 25%, and marvins usage is so low that between favors and smith they would have it covered.

I have to go back to the headcase that this guy is and why it would keep him from being a good fit for the Jazz, he and his ego just will not work for this team he would do more harm than good in the end. I have to say I really don't think the Jazz are looking at Smith he just is not the kind of player they want on their team IMHO. From what I remember when Smith was playing the SF position for the Hawks his outside shooting killed them and when he was moved to the PF position where he could use his inside game is when he started to excel, so if he had to be the SF for this team I think he shot would still hurt his team.

I think that if the Jazz make a move it has to be a Young up and coming PG that can lead these Young Guns the Jazz has on the team that is the most important move right now for them. I also think that DC is playing well enough that I would want to give him a shot at the stating SF for the rest of the season his play I think has earned him that shot.

dongibby wrote:

I have to go back to the headcase that this guy is and why it would keep him from being a good fit for the Jazz, he and his ego just will not work for this team he would do more harm than good in the end. I have to say I really don't think the Jazz are looking at Smith he just is not the kind of player they want on their team IMHO. From what I remember when Smith was playing the SF position for the Hawks his outside shooting killed them and when he was moved to the PF position where he could use his inside game is when he started to excel, so if he had to be the SF for this team I think he shot would still hurt his team.

I think that if the Jazz make a move it has to be a Young up and coming PG that can lead these Young Guns the Jazz has on the team that is the most important move right now for them. I also think that DC is playing well enough that I would want to give him a shot at the stating SF for the rest of the season his play I think has earned him that shot.

There is no up and coming PG available. And dont tell me Bledsoe. Name a PG thats available in a trade??? I cant' think of one. Names like Bayless, Bledsoe blah blah. No thanks. Mo has 3 great years in him.

Also, every time Smith comes up, there's someone saying he's a head case. Yet the only things he's done is said he wants to win, doesn't want to be in Atlanta anymore. All there ever are, are "sources saying" blah blah blah. Nothing out of his mouth though.
If I was on a team like Atlanta, where everything went through the SG Joe Johnson, and they were consistently mediocre, why would you not want to go somewhere, I would.

Staying away from guys who some label "head cases" is a great way miss out on talent. Andrew Bynum is considered a "head case", is Carmelo Anthony NOT considered one?? He got a coach fired, and kills an offense, yet there he is. The list goes on and on.
Jazz will and always do their background stuff. They also have a solid team, with solid people to surround Smith.

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

[You guys are absolutely right to tlalk about the system thing, because his ability to work within the system would make or break his success with this team. To really maximize his value he would have to be willing to be just another cog in the engine offensively. This year his usage is over 26%, last year it was over 28%, but during his best season statistically (and, not coincidentally, the Hawks best season with him) his usage was only 22% and that is about where he would need to be to really be successfull in the Jazz system. Would he be happy with that? He wasn't before, and that was likely a factor in why Mike Woodson was fired after that season, so I think the question is debateable.

Not to mention that if Josh accepted a lesser offensive role, than someone else (or multiple players) would be expected to step up the offense to make up for the loss of Al. Do the Jazz have the guys capable of doing that? I hope/think so, but I'm not 100% convinced.

That'd actually be the least of my worries, jefferson isn't the jazz best option right now and his usage is only about 25%, and marvins usage is so low that between favors and smith they would have it covered.

Right, not worried either. Al gets his, but doesn't make anyone else better. Its addition by subtraction here as far as the offense goes.

Its a pipe dream anyway, I realize that. However, I just can't get over how much sense it makes, and how phenomenal of a move it would be. And this group moving forward, Burks/Hayward/Favors/Kanter/Paul/Josh would grow and play together for the next 4 years or more. Mo Williams in there too would be great. The balance is great, and defense killer. I love it so much, its got a 1% chance of happening.

Good discussion guys. I don't want to make this a Millsap versus Jefferson cause I like both of their attitudes and play.

That being said, I think Favors best position will be power forward not center. If you can convince me that Favors is the center of the future than I can go the Jefferson route. I just think on this team a three headed monster of Jefferson, Favors and Kanter is stronger than a three headed monster of Millsap, Favors and Kanter.

I'm with most of you as well that there is no PG out there for us right now. We live with Mo and hope we can develop one through the draft. I like what we have gotten from Burks this past week. He has opened my eyes to that possibility.

I'm not sure if Smith is the answer but I would wager that Millsap is the one moved in the next week, if we do make a move. So if it is not Smith, who is it?

dongibby wrote:

I think that if the Jazz make a move it has to be a Young up and coming PG that can lead these Young Guns the Jazz has on the team that is the most important move right now for them. I also think that DC is playing well enough that I would want to give him a shot at the stating SF for the rest of the season his play I think has earned him that shot.

We discussed a deal to land Marshall from Phoenix (maybe with Gortat?) earlier in the week. With Dragic playing so well, I imagine he could qualify as a young PG that COULD be good that also may be available.

Mutangclan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

[You guys are absolutely right to tlalk about the system thing, because his ability to work within the system would make or break his success with this team. To really maximize his value he would have to be willing to be just another cog in the engine offensively. This year his usage is over 26%, last year it was over 28%, but during his best season statistically (and, not coincidentally, the Hawks best season with him) his usage was only 22% and that is about where he would need to be to really be successfull in the Jazz system. Would he be happy with that? He wasn't before, and that was likely a factor in why Mike Woodson was fired after that season, so I think the question is debateable.

Not to mention that if Josh accepted a lesser offensive role, than someone else (or multiple players) would be expected to step up the offense to make up for the loss of Al. Do the Jazz have the guys capable of doing that? I hope/think so, but I'm not 100% convinced.

That'd actually be the least of my worries, jefferson isn't the jazz best option right now and his usage is only about 25%, and marvins usage is so low that between favors and smith they would have it covered.

Right, not worried either. Al gets his, but doesn't make anyone else better. Its addition by subtraction here as far as the offense goes.

Its a pipe dream anyway, I realize that. However, I just can't get over how much sense it makes, and how phenomenal of a move it would be. And this group moving forward, Burks/Hayward/Favors/Kanter/Paul/Josh would grow and play together for the next 4 years or more. Mo Williams in there too would be great. The balance is great, and defense killer. I love it so much, its got a 1% chance of happening.

Talent wise its off the chart but i think jazz brazz is really thinking of keeping Al and moving Paul? Al has taking our young bigs and worked with them were paul i think is more worried about getting his numbers this year to hit open market? I bet is it would be paul for smith.

Al
Favors
smith
Hayward
Burks
Kanter six man? And can Burk be our starter at Pg? I think come the start of next year he'll be ready for starting at point.Corbin just needs to keep giving him time to grow and get comfortable. Time.

First thing does the jazz brazz like smith to offer that kind of money to?
Or would they want to give that to millsap who seems to like it here? I bet smith move is more like a half percent chance? sry tang. Plus both players would be for rent when we seen the real price tag both want. How did smith marv get along?

zero24gravity wrote:

dongibby wrote:

I think that if the Jazz make a move it has to be a Young up and coming PG that can lead these Young Guns the Jazz has on the team that is the most important move right now for them. I also think that DC is playing well enough that I would want to give him a shot at the stating SF for the rest of the season his play I think has earned him that shot.

We discussed a deal to land Marshall from Phoenix (maybe with Gortat?) earlier in the week. With Dragic playing so well, I imagine he could qualify as a young PG that COULD be good that also may be available.

Ya, Dragic I think could be picked-up in a trade and the Pistons have 3 PG's and are not sold on Brandon Knight from things I have read so maybe a trade for him could be worked out, the thing is I think the Jazz would be better off trying to get something done going after that type of PG than making a move for J Smith.

As far as showing the things that he has done to get that type cast in the NBA I say this, the guy has that label it is not something that I have pinned on him myself this is what has been said about him from people around the league who has been around the guy and it has stuck. Everyone has heard the thing's that people from the NBA have talked about when it come's to his attitude it has been out there for a long time now. Again I say that he is not the kind of player the Jazz would go after in a trade and I would be shocked if it did happen.