Rumors, rumors, rumors

Professo_Sloan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

No, because there are limitations on what teams can offer as an extention to a contract. Extentions can only be 4 years total including the years currently on their contract (meaning this year counts) and are limited to a yearly change in value of +/- 7% of their current salary. So what that means is that even for players who are currently payed close to their value like Smith and Jefferson, signing an extention costs them a year on what is probably the most lucrative contract they will ever sign. For players like Millsap who are worth more than what they are making now it's even worse, the most the Jazz (or anybody else) could offer him on an extention is 3 years for 28 Million total.

For a player (or rather a players agent) who knows the game is a buisness (like they all do), and has skills that are in demand around the league, signing an extention that limits the size of the contract so severely when you are at the apex of your ability (and therefore your value) is pretty much the least attractive option. At that point in thier career they are (as they should be) looking for the Maximum total number of guranteed dollars that they can get, and with the current rules being what they are the only time they can really do that is when they become a free agents.

So, I think it is wrong to assume that just because a player in his prime is unwilling to sign and extention that they want to leave. They may or may not want to leave, but that is probably totally seperate from the issue of an extention.

*7.5%

Couple things here.

A) Jazz could "designate" Smoove and give him a 5 year extension. This removes injury risk from Smith waiting until the offseason.

B) Bird's Rights FA's can sign for 5 years vs. 4 on the market. S&T is limited to 4 years as well. Smith has motivation to stay in ATL for that extra year (or where ever he's traded to).

I'd give up Jefferson, Burks, and the two first round picks if Smoove would extend as part of the transaction. However, I think a team like Phoenix makes much more sense for ATL. Gortat plus their pick or the Lakers pick would be a fair deal, but doesn't make sense for Smith if he wants to compete.

Why would Smith extend at all if the most he could get paid is a 7.5% raise from what he is being paid now? He thinks he's a Max player, and if he gets a Max deal he would make as much in 4 years as he could in a 5 year extension, not to mention the fact that he could (and probably will) get 5 years starting at 14 or 15 Mil if he waits becomes a free agent? I just don't see any reason why guys like him and Millsap would sign an extension unless they REALLY wanted to stay where they are and money wasn't an object.

I still think a Gotat+Dragic for Jefferson+pick makes good sense for both sides. Phoenix is stuck in salary cap purgatory going nowhere fast, Jefferson would immediately be the best player on the team if they wanted to keep him and give them tons of cap space if they didn't. Gortat has a very reasonable contract and would be nice to have especially if they Jazz can't keep Millsap, Dragic is a starting quality PG.

TheMagnus wrote:

... I still think a Gotat+Dragic for Jefferson+pick makes good sense for both sides...

I can see the Jazz doing such trade with PHO.
I cannot see them doing the Bledsoe/Millsap trade

outerspacefan wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

... I still think a Gotat+Dragic for Jefferson+pick makes good sense for both sides...

I can see the Jazz doing such trade with PHO.
I cannot see them doing the Bledsoe/Millsap trade

I'm getting a strong feeling that the Jazz aren't going to make any trades at all. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it. It's more likely that they let Al walk and try to do a sign and trade with whoever he signs with.

I think Jazz brass really want to make a move for the right PG, but I don't think they will force anything. They probably have assets and flexibility to get themselves a nice PG with good ceiling thru next draft if nothing else comes to fruition...

I dont think there's a PG to be had out there. So I dont think there will be a trade. And I like it.

My hopeful addition to the team is Luke Ridnour, and I also think it's most likely. And if it were to happen, I think it will be the second time that we give up basically crumbs to get a handy dandy piece.

TheMagnus wrote:

Why would Smith extend at all if the most he could get paid is a 7.5% raise from what he is being paid now? He thinks he's a Max player, and if he gets a Max deal he would make as much in 4 years as he could in a 5 year extension, not to mention the fact that he could (and probably will) get 5 years starting at 14 or 15 Mil if he waits becomes a free agent? I just don't see any reason why guys like him and Millsap would sign an extension unless they REALLY wanted to stay where they are and money wasn't an object.

I should have mentioned that I don't think he's a max player and he/his agent are crazy if they really believe he is. He's eligible for the 30% of cap max, so about $18 million starting assuming a $60 million cap. Whoever pays that + 3 7.5% raises is screwing themselves.

He cannot get a 5 year contract from any team that doesn't have his bird's rights. FA and S-n-T limits to 4 years (and the 4.5% lower raises I believe). He cannot get the 5 year (including this one) "designated player" extension from anyone but the team he is on.

TheMagnus wrote:

I still think a Gotat+Dragic for Jefferson+pick makes good sense for both sides. Phoenix is stuck in salary cap purgatory going nowhere fast, Jefferson would immediately be the best player on the team if they wanted to keep him and give them tons of cap space if they didn't. Gortat has a very reasonable contract and would be nice to have especially if they Jazz can't keep Millsap, Dragic is a starting quality PG.

Agreed on them being stuck but they're too dumb to dump what little they have left. Their fans love Dragic too so I doubt they give that much up just for an expiring and a bad 1st round pick. I'd do Jefferson, Burks, and both 1st rounders (top xxx protected) in a heartbeat for Dragic+Gortat though. Gortat wants out and would be a nice fit here with his focus on team defense (the main complaint I've read from him was that they don't play hard together and he was used to an Orlando squad that did).

Favors, Gortat, Marvin-Hayward, Hayward-Carroll, Dragic is a very tough defensive team with enough offense to manage a Pacers style winning record. Then you go shopping with $19 million in cap room, which is more than enough to replace those two bad 1st rounders with at least one good one.

One more point on the J.Smoove/Millsap type situations. Being the risk adverse type, I find it moronic that Smith would give up somewhere around $60 million in guaranteed money for a shot at maybe $10 million more while shouldering a career ending injury wiping all of that out. On top of that, selling a mansion and buying another is not cheap. Also, and it's hard to calculate what exactly it could be worth, but taking a 15% bonus up front on an extension could be invested to make up another million or two of the difference. I don't see anyone giving him an $80 million contract and including a 15% bonus up front.

It's just not worth taking a risk like Eric Gordon did, even if his situation turned out just as good.

DeAndre Jordan+Bledsoe+pick for Al Jefferson and Tinsley?

What's the valuation of a pick, dollarwise, in a trade?

TheMagnus wrote:

Honestly, Millsap playing for the Clippers is the thing I hate the most about this deal. It's almost like when the Mailman went to the Lakers, just makes me sick to my stomach. Millsap is one of my top 5 favorite Jazz players of all time.

Funny thing is, after reading a couple National stories about the Sap to the Clippers rumors .... the Clipper fans almost exclusively think that this isn't a good trade for them. They have respect for Paul's game, but think Bledsoe is either better, or at least is a better fit for their team.


I also saw this, written yesterday by someone on Stoop Sports (not saying that's credible, just giving credit)..

Clippers trade Eric Bledsoe to the Jazz for Paul Millsap
Millsap is the second power forward to now emerge into Clippers’ trade rumors. Some sources have said that a Bledsoe for Millsap trade has been talked about, and I like it. The Clippers obviously lose a key asset in Bledsoe’s energy and defense, but Millsap is a damn good player, and was arguably the best power forward in the league over the last two months of last season. There’s no question the Jazz would do it, getting rid of someone they can’t retain in free agency for a good young point guard. Plus, though Bledsoe will also be a free agent at the end of next season, he will be restricted, so the Jazz would have the ability to match any offer he receives.

There's no question the Jazz would do it? That seems like a bit of a stretch.

Also, the same article states that the Celtics could trade Jordan AND Bledsoe for Garnett. Sorry, but I don't see how Garnett is so much more valuable than Paul. (Not to mention that Paul & Eric's salaries don't match, so there would been to be more involved.)

And this...
Al Jefferson- With Favors and Kanter both having great young talent, either Jefferson or Millsap (or both) will be out in Utah after this season. The Clippers and Nets have rumored interest in Millsap, while the Spurs, Pistons and Suns have all showed up in Jefferson rumors. Utah has stated they’d rather keep big Al, but at the right price I’m sure Utah would let him walk. It’s not too long ago that they surprised us with a deadline dealing of Deron Williams.

Another form ESPN...

Quote :

Seven trades that should happen


1. Eric Bledsoe to the Jazz

Utah Jazz receive: Eric Bledsoe, Caron Butler and Ronny Turiaf. Los Angeles Clippers receive: Paul Millsap and Alec Burks. The deal in Trade Machine.

The Utah Jazz have one of those "good problems" on their hands: They have too many starter-quality big men on their roster. This puts them in a very desirable position at the trade deadline because they possess a surplus that can be used to fill a need (backcourt help).

Enter Eric Bledsoe. The rumored swap (detailed in-depth here by our own Bradford Doolittle) makes sense on almost every level for the Jazz. They net a potential star in Bledsoe while giving up Millsap, who may be nothing more than a temporary placeholder for Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter in Utah's frontcourt. Bledsoe is averaging 15.9 points, 5.5 assists and 5.2 rebounds every 36 minutes this season, and Utah would have every reason to give him that kind of playing time.

As for the Clippers? Millsap would help raise the team's 21st ranking in defensive rebounding rate and give them some much-needed scoring punch down low. Lamar Odom was supposed to be that guy, but he's scored double digits just once this season. The Clippers could go big and slot the 6-8 Millsap at the 3, which would give them one of the league's most formidable frontcourts. Would it guarantee a better shot at the title? It's certainly a safer bet than Odom's becoming a reliable NBA player again.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PerDiem-130219/nba-seven-trades-happen

Millsap AND Burks? No way in hell the Jazz do that. Why would the Jazz trade Burks for Caron Butler? Because Marvin needs a friend in the "overpaid veteran wing" section of the locker room?

TheMagnus wrote:

Another form ESPN...

Quote :

Seven trades that should happen


1. Eric Bledsoe to the Jazz

Utah Jazz receive: Eric Bledsoe, Caron Butler and Ronny Turiaf. Los Angeles Clippers receive: Paul Millsap and Alec Burks. The deal in Trade Machine.

The Utah Jazz have one of those "good problems" on their hands: They have too many starter-quality big men on their roster. This puts them in a very desirable position at the trade deadline because they possess a surplus that can be used to fill a need (backcourt help).

Enter Eric Bledsoe. The rumored swap (detailed in-depth here by our own Bradford Doolittle) makes sense on almost every level for the Jazz. They net a potential star in Bledsoe while giving up Millsap, who may be nothing more than a temporary placeholder for Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter in Utah's frontcourt. Bledsoe is averaging 15.9 points, 5.5 assists and 5.2 rebounds every 36 minutes this season, and Utah would have every reason to give him that kind of playing time.

As for the Clippers? Millsap would help raise the team's 21st ranking in defensive rebounding rate and give them some much-needed scoring punch down low. Lamar Odom was supposed to be that guy, but he's scored double digits just once this season. The Clippers could go big and slot the 6-8 Millsap at the 3, which would give them one of the league's most formidable frontcourts. Would it guarantee a better shot at the title? It's certainly a safer bet than Odom's becoming a reliable NBA player again.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PerDiem-130219/nba-seven-trades-happen

Millsap AND Burks? No way in hell the Jazz do that. Why would the Jazz trade Burks for Caron Butler? Because Marvin needs a friend in the "overpaid veteran wing" section of the locker room?

Agreed. When I see Burks' name in there, it makes me go <gulp> .... no, no, no. I say give 'em Watson or Bell and one of the first round picks this year instead of Burks.

Butler is not needed either, but someone has to make up the salary difference between Paul & Eric if this deal is to go down. The Jazz would be very overstocked at the wing if they added Butler, so maybe a 3rd team would be involved??? If Caron & Marv are still here next year, it's all but guaranteed that Demarre is gone. Turiaf makes sense, because the team would need a 4th big. Can you imagine the energy if Turiaf & Carroll are out there at the same time? Murphy may also be thrown in to make it an even swap of players.

Trollificus wrote:

DeAndre Jordan+Bledsoe+pick for Al Jefferson and Tinsley?

What's the valuation of a pick, dollarwise, in a trade?

$0.00.

Clippers can't trade this year's pick anyway since they gave up last year's. Similarly, the Jazz can't trade their own pick this year, only the GST one.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Another form ESPN...

Quote :

Seven trades that should happen


1. Eric Bledsoe to the Jazz

Utah Jazz receive: Eric Bledsoe, Caron Butler and Ronny Turiaf. Los Angeles Clippers receive: Paul Millsap and Alec Burks. The deal in Trade Machine.

The Utah Jazz have one of those "good problems" on their hands: They have too many starter-quality big men on their roster. This puts them in a very desirable position at the trade deadline because they possess a surplus that can be used to fill a need (backcourt help).

Enter Eric Bledsoe. The rumored swap (detailed in-depth here by our own Bradford Doolittle) makes sense on almost every level for the Jazz. They net a potential star in Bledsoe while giving up Millsap, who may be nothing more than a temporary placeholder for Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter in Utah's frontcourt. Bledsoe is averaging 15.9 points, 5.5 assists and 5.2 rebounds every 36 minutes this season, and Utah would have every reason to give him that kind of playing time.

As for the Clippers? Millsap would help raise the team's 21st ranking in defensive rebounding rate and give them some much-needed scoring punch down low. Lamar Odom was supposed to be that guy, but he's scored double digits just once this season. The Clippers could go big and slot the 6-8 Millsap at the 3, which would give them one of the league's most formidable frontcourts. Would it guarantee a better shot at the title? It's certainly a safer bet than Odom's becoming a reliable NBA player again.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PerDiem-130219/nba-seven-trades-happen

Millsap AND Burks? No way in hell the Jazz do that. Why would the Jazz trade Burks for Caron Butler? Because Marvin needs a friend in the "overpaid veteran wing" section of the locker room?

Agreed. When I see Burks' name in there, it makes me go <gulp> .... no, no, no. I say give 'em Watson or Bell and one of the first round picks this year instead of Burks.

Butler is not needed either, but someone has to make up the salary difference between Paul & Eric if this deal is to go down. The Jazz would be very overstocked at the wing if they added Butler, so maybe a 3rd team would be involved??? If Caron & Marv are still here next year, it's all but guaranteed that Demarre is gone. Turiaf makes sense, because the team would need a 4th big. Can you imagine the energy if Turiaf & Carroll are out there at the same time? Murphy may also be thrown in to make it an even swap of players.

Why not just Odom instead of Butler and Turiaf? I'd reather have Turiaf, but Odom has an expiring 8 million dollar contract, so if you are just looking for filler to complete the deal Odom is the easy pick, and I think significantly more attractive than taking on Butler.

Haberstroh seems to have a need to propose deals where teams form LA "win" deals with the Jazz and seems to have a low opinion of our young players. Just a month or so ago he wrote a whole article around a Millsap, Kanter, and Burks for Pau Gasol deal.

TheMagnus wrote:

Why not just Odom instead of Butler and Turiaf? I'd reather have Turiaf, but Odom has an expiring 8 million dollar contract, so if you are just looking for filler to complete the deal Odom is the easy pick, and I think significantly more attractive than taking on Butler.

Haberstroh seems to have a need to propose deals where teams form LA "win" deals with the Jazz and seems to have a low opinion of our young players. Just a month or so ago he wrote a whole article around a Millsap, Kanter, and Burks for Pau Gasol deal.

I kinda get that vibe as well. Like he's adding Burks simply as "filler", when he is more than that.

I agree with you that Odom would make more sense for the Jazz.... the question is, do the Clippers like that idea? Seems like Paul may take some of Caron's minutes in this situation, which may be a reason the Clips want to unload him. They also would get $$$ flexibilty for next year by moving Butler, something they would need if they wanted to resign Paul after this year. On the flip side, Odom and Millsap play a similar position, so giving up Odom would maybe make for better roster options this year.

zero24gravity wrote:

TheMagnus wrote:

Why not just Odom instead of Butler and Turiaf? I'd reather have Turiaf, but Odom has an expiring 8 million dollar contract, so if you are just looking for filler to complete the deal Odom is the easy pick, and I think significantly more attractive than taking on Butler.

Haberstroh seems to have a need to propose deals where teams form LA "win" deals with the Jazz and seems to have a low opinion of our young players. Just a month or so ago he wrote a whole article around a Millsap, Kanter, and Burks for Pau Gasol deal.

I kinda get that vibe as well. Like he's adding Burks simply as "filler", when he is more than that.

I agree with you that Odom would make more sense for the Jazz.... the question is, do the Clippers like that idea? Seems like Paul may take some of Caron's minutes in this situation, which may be a reason the Clips want to unload him. They also would get $$$ flexibilty for next year by moving Butler, something they would need if they wanted to resign Paul after this year. On the flip side, Odom and Millsap play a similar position, so giving up Odom would maybe make for better roster options this year.

Well, like most rumors, this one really doesn't have anything to do with what the actual Clippers organization wants. I'm sure Clippers FANS want to unload Butler for young talent, just like Jazz fans want to unload Marvin Williams for a starting PG, but that doesn't really have any bearing on the real world.

One last vocalized hope, that Al goes to ATL for Josh Smith. Out of all the things ATL is being offered, Al is easily the best of it, and also goes with what they actually want, a true Center so Al Horford can play the 4.

Here's hoping...

More of the same Clippers trade stuff. This from a former sports correspondent for KBYU.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/eric-bledsoe-nice-fit-utah-jazz-074300586--nba.html;_ylt=AoVDJiedgJAkfwvdFsNPFHHnPKB4

Professo_Sloan wrote:

Trollificus wrote:

DeAndre Jordan+Bledsoe+pick for Al Jefferson and Tinsley?

What's the valuation of a pick, dollarwise, in a trade?

$0.00.

Clippers can't trade this year's pick anyway since they gave up last year's. Similarly, the Jazz can't trade their own pick this year, only the GST one.

n/m then.

I'm not really that impressed with Jordan anyway, I just want everyone to realize that "too many bigs" is relative. We have "too many near-equally-talented bigs", but we actually have less size than almost any team in the league and could use a big stiff/7 footer or two. The Clips have a half-dozen players 6'10" or over. The Jazz? 3.

Turiaf's more the kind of small-minutes big we could use on the bench for foul/ejection/injury/"flu-like symptoms" situations.

I love Turiaf for this team as a 4th big. Been wanting him in Utah.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Utah_JazzNation/status/304093043190009856

Is this an official jazz twitter account? Or just some hack?

I hope it's a hack, because if not, then Lindsey going in and Paul only one not coming out means what we think.....


I hope Al is the one to go and Paul stays. It worries me a bit that Ty could formulate a winning offense with Fav/Paul/Mo/Foye/Marv starting games though. Corbin not having Al to dump it into I think is a recipe for disaster.

Here's what ATL is looking for supposedly:

However, if the Hawks are going to cash out Smith they’re not going to make a deal for the sake of doing it. Smith understands he may be dealt, but isn’t actively campaigning for a change of scenery so Ferry isn’t operating under that sort of pressure. The Hawks have long been in the market for a productive center which would allow Al Horford to play more minutes at the power forward spot. The Hawks are also seeking a defensive minded forward with size on the wing, young talent or draft picks.
Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-thunder-pursuing-marcin-gortat/#TMfpZbeHuUhIs06G.99

I mean, come on!! Al and Marv for Josh Smith this way, fill in the numbers, it's perfect!! Though man, Marv would be so depressed, hah.

The Voice of Reason wrote:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Utah_JazzNation/status/304093043190009856

Is this an official jazz twitter account? Or just some hack?

It's not official, at least I don't think it is, I think it is one of the guys that run the Utah Jazz Nation Facebook page.

If Millsap was told he was being traded last night I think the beat writers would have been all over it this morning, somebody would know by now.

Rumor has it lots of people are looking for draft picks, and that even with a weak draft they are a hot commodity. Very real possibility the Jazz could package the GS pick with the Jazz lesser expiring contracts (Bell, tinsley, Watson, maybe even Marvin or Mo) to get somebody cheap.

I love this team right now, and if no deal gets done I will honestly be relieved.

That being said, this would be my #1 choice for a deadline deal...

Marvin Williams + GS pick for Goran Dragic.

Take it one step further and I'd do this deal...

Marvin Williams + Earl Watson + RBEC + GS Pick for Goran Dragic + Jared Dudley

I like the second deal less because Dudley takes minutes from Carrol and Burks, but Dudley is a good player with a reasonable contract.

TheMagnus wrote:

Rumor has it lots of people are looking for draft picks, and that even with a weak draft they are a hot commodity. Very real possibility the Jazz could package the GS pick with the Jazz lesser expiring contracts (Bell, tinsley, Watson, maybe even Marvin or Mo) to get somebody cheap.

I love this team right now, and if no deal gets done I will honestly be relieved.

That being said, this would be my #1 choice for a deadline deal...

Marvin Williams + GS pick for Goran Dragic.

Take it one step further and I'd do this deal...

Marvin Williams + Earl Watson + RBEC + GS Pick for Goran Dragic + Jared Dudley

I like the second deal less because Dudley takes minutes from Carrol and Burks, but Dudley is a good player with a reasonable contract.

I likey. Dudley is definitely an upgrade over Marv and Dragic could be the Jazz PG to lead the young guns onwards to their peak. I think Burks is going to get reasonable minutes for the rest of the season, who knows about DC, he is obviously odd man out now that GH is back. I could see actually a decent time split between Dudley and DC once the "Karmic Wall of Potential Williams and His Large Contract" were out of the way.